News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by pitaj on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:10AM (#20810386)
Your yard was not there naturally, unless you call a section of untouched forest "your yard".

Every piece of property must be improved by labor in some way. That is how property is created in the first place: homesteading involves investing your labor into untouched land to own it, as one example.

Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by reroute1 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:02PM (#20811113)
No, that's not true. Real estate can be purchased and owned, resold over and over without being improved by labor. Land property is not created by laboring on it, in fact it was always there.
Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by bediger4000 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:09PM (#20811188)
Yes, that's true, even if the "improvement" is merely to define property lines and locations. If property lines aren't there, it effectively doesn't exist. I mean, yes, some chunk of continental crust exists, but it's not "property" if you can't define it.
Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by reroute1 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:12PM (#20811237)
If you completely redefine "improvement" and "labor" then sure.
Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by pitaj on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:14PM (#20811249)
> No, that's not true. Real estate can be purchased and owned, resold over and over without being improved by labor.

The initial labor is what creates the property. It can then be traded and whatnot. But it was not property before the initial labor that transformed wild land to something useful.

> Land property is not created by laboring on it, in fact it was always there.

There is much untouched land on the moon. Who owns that?

Land exists before improvement, but it is not property until improved through labor by people. That's just how the property rights on which our civilization is based work.

Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by reroute1 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:24PM (#20811421)
Exactly physical land exists, and the only "labor" required for it to be property is for people to agree on it being property. How does this constitute real labor or improvement?

Intellectual properties are generally more creative based endeavors and should be protected as such IMO

Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by wolfgke on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:18PM (#20811324)
> There is much untouched land on the moon. Who owns that?

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moon_Treaty&oldid...

Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by LiquidSky on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:11PM (#20811219)
That's what nonsensical libertarian dogma insists, sure, but that pseudo-religious tripe has no relation to or bearing on reality.

Property is created when someone uses force to claim ownership of something. That's it. Anything else is post-hoc justification for said claim. You can indeed own that untouched forest if you can hold it with force. That's the ultimate basis of property, no matter how libertarians try to mask it: the imposition of force on the existing natural world to create artificial division of ownership.

Re:Just Enough Piracy Can Be a Good Thing by dang on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @05:32PM (#20824194)
Please don't call names in arguments or take HN threads further into ideological flamewar. It just makes discussion tediouser and nastier.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html