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Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by comex on Monday August 26, 2019 @09:37PM (#20805547)
I don’t know. My guess is that the average gamer is less willing to forgive crappy art than the average game dev, because game devs have more experience dealing with works-in-progress that have unpolished graphics, and “seeing through” the graphics to the underlying merits. I could be wrong, though.

Certainly Jeff’s customers don’t value art too highly – or else they wouldn’t be Jeff’s customers! It’s a self-selected group. The real question is how many potential customers pass over his games because of the graphics.

Yes, the only way to answer that question would be for Jeff to make a big gamble. It makes perfect sense for him to not want to take such a risk. That doesn’t mean we can’t speculate about whether he would win that gamble if he made it. :)

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by coldtea on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:10AM (#20807589)
>My guess is that the average gamer is less willing to forgive crappy art than the average game dev, because game devs have more experience dealing with works-in-progress that have unpolished graphics, and “seeing through” the graphics to the underlying merits. I could be wrong, though.

Thing is, the target market for his games is not "the average gamer".

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by repomies691 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:15AM (#20809202)
This. This is niche-within-niche-within-niche level stuff. Gaming nowadays is insanely big market and there are endless weird niches for all kind of tastes. Businessmen like Jeff discover some specific niche and make living out of it.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by Noos on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @01:17AM (#20806538)
I'm not sure. Look at the Hyperdimension Neptunia games, for example. Reuses a lot of assets, not really known for any graphical prowess, pretty much functional at best graphics. They sell a ton of them. Same with the Atelier games, they are pretty much decent PS3-level graphics but nothing fancy.

Or the Earth Defense Force games. I think once you get loyalty to a series, if anything change is a net negative. There's a lot more to go wrong than go right. Gamers are conservative by nature; if it works, keep playing it

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by wccrawford on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:21AM (#20807979)
Neptunia, Atelier, and EDF all have much better graphics than Jeff's games. The first 2 have a lot of well-drawn scantily clad girls, and all the graphics are nice. They're old-school, but very well done.

Jeff's games do not have that same air of quality. It's not just about techniques or style, it's about artistry.

Personally, that's fine. I value a game much, much more for its gameplay than its graphics. But that is certainly not true for the market at large.

And even for myself, if a game doesn't put in the effort to have good art, I assume they didn't put in the effort for the gameplay easier, as its a lot easier to buy good art than good gameplay design.

People do judge books by their covers, and Jeff isn't acknowledging that.

Having said all that, if I ever played any of his games, it was forever ago. I've looked at them and haven't seen or read anything that makes them stand out. People sometimes say they're great, but they never say anything that makes them sound special.

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by the_seraphim on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @08:10AM (#20808701)
exactly, The game i spent most time playing this week is entirely text based, there is only a background image, which i turned off as it was a little annoying.

im talking white text on a black background.

the gameplay was and always will be much more important than the graphics.

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by dnh44 on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:18AM (#20809231)
care to share what game it is?
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by banachtarski on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:52AM (#20808163)
Your comparisons are actually proving the opposite of your point. There's no way you can even approach the graphical fidelity in Hyperdimension Neptunia on Jeff's budget.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by kemayo on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:37AM (#20809430)
A fun way to visualize this comparison... this is the ending credits for Hyperdimension Neptunia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQXspiEngM8 (NSFW for scantily clad women)

There's 13 people listed as working on graphics. That's legitimately pretty small for professional games... but it's still huge compared to what Spiderweb can afford.

Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by pfisch on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:08PM (#20814418)
Without context you don't know what that means. That could be outsourced art from a cheaper country totaling less than 100k.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by chongli on Monday August 26, 2019 @10:51PM (#20805926)
My guess is that Jeff's customers are not average gamers. In all likelihood, they're people like me who have been playing his games for decades.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by buildzr on Monday August 26, 2019 @10:54PM (#20805943)
I'm on the same page, Jeff can ship whatever passes for playable art, I'm in it for his stories and interesting gameplay. I still remember opening that giant list of spells in Exile 3 for the first time, filling a good chunk of my 640x480 screen... nothing quite like it.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by esyir on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:47AM (#20808137)
I'm the opposite. I own his games, but fighting the UI all the way means that I never got very far. And this is from a guy who used to mainline dwarf fortress
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by chupy on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:03AM (#20810300)
Maybe due to the fact that I played all his games on a laptop and I hated the mac trackpad I decided to use mostly the hotkeys that are provided. That worked great and also sped things up significantly.
Re:I Am the Cheapest Bastard in Indie Games by kalleboo on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:40AM (#20809456)
UI is very different from graphics though. You can have gorgeous graphics and terrible UI