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Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dmix on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:35AM (#20785235)
Just like smoking it's important that those 10yrs have context around the deaths, assuming they ramp up, it's not just all vape usage = high risk. It's how you use it too.

I personally quit smoking cigarettes and moved from 24mg->3mg of nicotine over a few months (with zero withdrawl symptoms). 3mg is about as low as you can go. You can't do that with smoking cigarettes, "light" cigarettes is mostly just a flavour profile with only small differences in health and nicotine levels.

With cigarettes there were plenty of people who smoked a pack or two a day, those people on a 20yr span are at a higher risk. You see some people who smoke these massive vape clouds and they smoke constantly with high nicotine counts + high heat. Those are all voluntary options and the devices/juice is getting better with time.

Currently nicotine salts are taking over in vape shops, which are smaller devices, smaller amounts of liquid but higher nicotine-liquid ratios, and they have a much smaller exhale clouds which I find easier on the chest and way less anti-social when outside (the exhaled cloud is 10-50% of the size of a normal cigarette, and way smaller than traditional vapes).

Finally, there's second-hand smoke. There was a study showing vape smoke creates extremely small or non-existent second-hand transmission compared to cigarettes. Cigarette smoke stays in the air in a inhale-able state far longer.

> According to Drexel University toxicology expert Igor Burstyn, while the contents of e-cig vapor inhaled by users “justifies surveillance,” there is so little contamination in exhaled vapor that there is unlikely to be any risk.

https://bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1...

^ This is a big deal for anyone who grew up with a parent who smoked around them like I did.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by macintux on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:42AM (#20785270)
It’s hard to get enthusiastic about something deadly and noxious just because it’s less noxious than something truly awful.

Walking behind someone who was vaping recently is one of the least pleasant experiences I’ve had for a while.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dmix on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:54AM (#20785309)
A whole lot of society and social policy is about lesser of evils. It's about being realistic and practical. Which is something far more policy should be conscious of, instead of some idealistic perfect world you wish to impose on other people.

Not to mention people could just as quickly harm themselves going to a 7/11 every day to eat carbs or driving a motorcycle or drinking alcohol or engaging in 'extreme' sports. But we people do those things anyway even though there's plenty of science to show it's dumb.

Especially if those 'evils' are a) entirely non-violent and voluntary only affecting the individual and b) are not going away ala drugs and the giant shift towards harm reduction.

People seem to be mixing up the growing pains of a extremely fast-growing new industry and the long-term realities once the legal, health, business, and administrative systems mature and adapt. The rush to immediately ban everything, well before we fully understand it and/or have experimented with less freedom/fun-destroying strategies, while also accurate measures of usage and risk, doesn't help anyone.

I will admit though, the 'think of the kids' people are making quite an effective stir.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by RhysU on Saturday August 24, 2019 @10:57AM (#20787448)
> Not to mention people could just as quickly harm themselves going to a 7/11 every day to eat carbs or driving a motorcycle or drinking alcohol or engaging in 'extreme' sports.

Motorcycling feels odd in that list of otherwise self-inflicted harms.

Sure, one can run into brick wall in a solo accident. But, often it's someone else that kills the motorcyclist.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by nucleardog on Saturday August 24, 2019 @12:41PM (#20788136)
Technicality. You're still putting yourself into a situation that's known to have a high likelihood of resulting in your serious injury or death.

You're talking like if you were to run across a live gun range and get shot it's not really your fault, but instead it was the shooter that killed you.

That may be technically true but you knew the risks were basically a certainty and chose to do it anyway.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by macintux on Saturday August 24, 2019 @01:03AM (#20785338)
It certainly seems like the vape industry set back social progress on this front significantly. Cigarettes stopped being cool quite a while ago, and smoking is almost never allowed indoors anymore, but hey, look these e-cigarettes are safe and trendy and all the cool kids are doing them.
Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dr_dshiv on Saturday August 24, 2019 @01:12AM (#20785368)
Social progress is prohibition or freedom of choice?

What's the harm?

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by disgruntledphd2 on Saturday August 24, 2019 @05:20AM (#20786150)
I think the harm is probably in the re-normalisation of nicotine addiction.

I smoked for a long time, and went on a vape recently, but the ads everywhere (in Ireland/UK) for various vaping services and devices are pretty concerning.

For me, it's harm reduction, but if non-smokers start vaping, that's a net loss.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by meshenna on Saturday August 24, 2019 @06:37AM (#20786392)
I think vaping is a genuine improvement, provided that the law treats it like it does tobacco, i.e. no advertising, age restrictions, etc. This is an anecdote, but in countries where those restrictions are in place, just about every vaper seems to be an ex-smoker, and nobody thinks vaping is cool or attractive.
Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by disgruntledphd2 on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @09:47AM (#20819698)
Yup, completely agreed.

Not sure that's what will happen though.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dr_dshiv on Saturday August 24, 2019 @06:10AM (#20786309)
Is addiction a problem, separate from cancer?

Coffee addiction is preventable, for instance.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by EpicEng on Saturday August 24, 2019 @11:13AM (#20787572)
>It’s hard to get enthusiastic about something deadly and noxious

We have no idea if it's "deadly". You skipped a few steps there.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by scrollaway on Saturday August 24, 2019 @07:04AM (#20786481)
> Walking behind someone who was vaping recently is one of the least pleasant experiences I’ve had for a while.

Worse than walking behind a smoker? Both my mother and a very good friend of mine smoke and I outright told them: you can vape around me, but don't smoke in my presence. I can't stand the smell.

Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by eurasiantiger on Saturday August 24, 2019 @11:14AM (#20787573)
Pure nicotine is not deadly, though. Plenty of studies have shown that.
Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dmix on Saturday August 24, 2019 @01:31PM (#20788452)
It's very addictive though which was my main concern. Low nicotine counts == far easier time quitting
Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by eurasiantiger on Saturday August 24, 2019 @06:29PM (#20790116)
That’s just it, pure nicotine is not very addictive. See https://www.gwern.net/Nicotine#addictiveness
Re:A person has died from a vaping-related condition by dmix on Saturday August 24, 2019 @07:30PM (#20790347)
Interesting read, I wasn't aware of that! I love that website.