News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by OJFord on Friday August 23, 2019 @05:27AM (#20775784)
> Kubernetes is when your service needs google kind of load which 90% of systems don't.

This is the most frustrating but oft repeated nonsense about k8s.

Kubernetes is an amazingly helpful abstraction for any amount of load on any larger than trivially tiny set of services/storage/etc.

When you, like 90% of systems, don't have Google kind of load, you don't need Google number of nodes.

Machine count corresponds to load; abstraction doesn't.

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by yongjik on Friday August 23, 2019 @12:07PM (#20779000)
Kubernetes may be a useful framework, but "amazingly helpful" is not a word I'd use for it. To me, it's a half-assed collection of five hundred nearly identical (but all slightly different) yaml files masquerading as "abstraction". And because they're yaml you can't refactor out the common part.

Well, to be fair, yaml itself doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation, but I've never seen fifty lines of yaml that could convey so little information in any other place.

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by OJFord on Friday August 23, 2019 @03:45PM (#20781817)
Use a Helm chart (or alternative)?

When you're writing YAML you can absolutely include from elsewhere (it calls it 'aliases', which is... Well, at least it exists) in multuple places - though annoyingly not from other files.

When you're reading (partially) generated YAML, (e.g. kubectl describe or edit) it's IMO a feature that everything is in its place with no indirection. (And as far as I'm aware this is YAML, not kubectl.)

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by dragonsh on Friday August 23, 2019 @06:47AM (#20776192)
> Machine count corresponds to load; abstraction doesn't.

K8s is developed to manage large number of service nodes running docker or oci containers coming from Google borg project. So it was designed for managing google level of service loads. It doesn't help when a service is only for few million users with few hundred or thousand containers. LXD and traditional tools can already do it without learning new way with lots of moving parts.

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by tutfbhuf on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:25AM (#20776364)
> It doesn't help when a service is only for few million users with few hundred or thousand containers.

Well my company switched from VMs to k8s (few hundred containers) and it helped. Proof me wrong.

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by zsoltk on Friday August 23, 2019 @08:11AM (#20776662)
My company switched from VMs to a managed k8s cluster (gcloud). It made everything harder, the application became about 5x slower and instead of a $300 monthly bill we paid for the VMs now we pay $1300.

So in summary:

* we still have same amount of developers

* we still need same amount of sysadmins

* we introduced more complexity

* the application became slower

* the whole thing became much more expensive (managed k8s price, education, consulting, etc.)

* but! we have the same amount of income every month. Surprisingly our users don't pay more for the same service because we run our stuff on k8s

Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by dragonsh on Friday August 23, 2019 @10:24AM (#20777949)
Cannot comment on it unless see it in details that adding additional moving components of k8s helped.
Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by oblio on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:44AM (#20776470)
Do you manage Kubernetes, personally? Did you manage the VMs?
Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by tutfbhuf on Friday August 23, 2019 @08:05AM (#20776609)
Yes, i'm a DevOps engineer. I have to say, we use the Google Cloud and many Google Services, this makes live so much easier. Before that we managed everything ourselves on bare metal with debian VMs.
Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by oblio on Friday August 23, 2019 @08:27AM (#20776779)
Not exactly my point. Are you comparing managing bare metal VMs with using a managed Kubernetes cluster? That's hardly a fair comparison.
Re:Why Does Developing on Kubernetes Suck? by oblio on Friday August 23, 2019 @07:44AM (#20776479)
> Kubernetes is an amazingly helpful abstraction for any amount of load on any larger than trivially tiny set of services/storage/etc.

Abstractions have a cost. You either pay the cloud provider or you pay the Ops team that runs the cluster.

If you're fine with that and have evaluated the costs correctly, great!