> independence for a long time even under UK rule?

From my understanding, most protesters do not seek independence from China. Do you have evidence to back your sentence up?

It's a common misunderstanding in mainland and rest of the world outside of Hong Kong to assume that the (majority of) people of Hong Kong wants independence when they are protecting about a very specific extradition bill.

Disclaimer: I'm mainland Chinese.

The protestors have defaced CCP liason office with Shina, blame CCP for Carrie Lam being elected, angry about CCP kidnapping book sellers, even the protest against the bill is because it will allow CCP to extradite HongKongers to China, and more.

Unless the government changes in China, China = CCP. If CCP wasn't in power any more, a lot of protestors wouldn't mind HongKong being part of China.

The protestors know if they specifically ask for independence, they will get shot.

There are numerous folks who openly demand a fully independent Hong Kong, one of them actually ran for Legislative Council[0].

I don't think the reason for people not mentioning independence is because they worry about their personal safety.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Leung

edit: full -> fully

Some people are actually asking for independence and they were not getting shot.

That said, I guess it's equally difficult for people to imagine that Chinese government has been very, very generous to the Hong Kong people. But that's generally true from a Chinese' pov. Generous to the point that a lot of mainlanders are actively complaining on online forums.

> Some people are actually asking for independence and they were not getting shot.

That is considered a fairly low bar by Western standards.

This isn't the first set of protests in HK, and they all have a universal thread: Issues with mainland oversight of HK

The extradition bill is just the latest one.

Many protestors have explicitly called for independence. Most are simply demanding things that are not possible with HK as a mainland managed province with the current powers that be in Beijing, and I can't imagine that they don't know this - it's a de facto desire for independence.

If the ROC was magically in charge, then HK probably wouldn't care about being independent.

So, most of the world sees the protests as obviously about freedom, and freedom from Chinese rule.

That you cannot see that... well... who is more likely to be wrong here?

Perhaps you have been incentivized not to learn how to think critically about social and governmental affairs, second and third order effects and consequences?

It's probably not their fault. There was a leaked propaganda document saying to portray HongKong people as violent rioters, censor police brutality and censor mentions of protestors apologizing for disruptions.

Look at Youtube channels like CGTN and Nathan Rich to see what they hear and you'll know what they don't hear.

The protesters have very specific demands, why do we need to guess? If most of the citizens actually demand full independence, I'm sure they will make themselves heard, like what they are doing now.

And who are "most of the world"? Has the world reached a unified conclusion on what the people of Hong Kong want?

Do you think the CCP will ever respect two systems?

How do you think autocratic governments handle corruption compared to democracies?

I like this more than my own answer. Asking them if they understand the motivations of the protesters is an excellent line of questioning.