News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:04PM (#20762357)
The rationale for the EC and every other compromise in the Constitution was simple: it’s what was required to get the states to actually sign up.

There was the very real possibility that the individual states would go their own way if they didn’t like the proposed Constitution. Larger states could have easily decided that they didn’t need to be part of a larger country. Smaller states could have easily decided that they would be ruled by the larger states and that they’d be better off independent.

The electoral college was needed to convince everyone to stick together. Same with the different structures of the House and the Senate, the 3/5ths compromise, and more.

Things are completely different now. There’s no realistic possibility that any state will exit the union. The major purpose of so many elements of our federal system is completely gone.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:22PM (#20762533)
That's fair. We have a set of rules, and the rationale for many of them is gone. Therefore... what?

Throw them all out? If so, replace them with what? Worse: How do you get everyone to agree on what to replace them with?

As it turns out, there's a mechanism for getting everyone to agree, and to prevent changes that everyone does not agree with (for certain values of "everyone"): Amend the Constitution.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:42PM (#20762711)
It turns out that there’s another mechanism to accomplish this: a collection of states adding up to a majority of electoral votes can agree to cast all of their votes to the winner of the national popular vote. Hence the subject of the article.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:47PM (#20762752)
I don't think it will "accomplish this", because it's too low a threshold. This mechanism doesn't add up to "getting everyone to agree". It adds up to "getting 50% + 1 of the electoral votes", which is not the same thing. It's going to leave far too many people feeling bypassed and marginalized. In today's political environment, those people might become problematic.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:57PM (#20762819)
Oh, I thought you were saying this was the mechanism for deciding how to change the rules.

At any rate, people may well feel bypassed and marginalized, but hopefully the ones outside of swing states will come around once they realize that their vote actually matters for once. And if they don’t, well, lots more people feel bypassed and marginalized now.

If it’s a bad idea, what do you propose to do about it? The Constitution allows states to cast their votes as they see fit.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @07:16PM (#20762950)
> Oh, I thought you were saying this was the mechanism for deciding how to change the rules.

That too. This "compact" approach bugs me partly because it's a hack to get around the appropriate way of doing this, which they know they can't get enough support to do.

> The Constitution allows states to cast their votes as they see fit.

That may be correct. But the Wikipedia article on this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Popular_Vote_Intersta...) indicates that the constitutionality is at least in question. I'd really like to see the Supreme Court decide on the constitutionality of this approach before the first election where it would be in force.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @08:12PM (#20763347)
What makes it a hack, but amending the Constitution isn’t? I agree it feels like one, but it is entirely above board. I’m sure the authors of the Constitution didn’t anticipate states choosing to allocate their votes this way, but they didn’t bother to specify how they could or couldn’t do it.

From the Wikipedia article, the only question I see is whether the agreement requires Congress to approve it or not. There seems to be no question that the agreement is allowed and would work.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by AnimalMuppet on Thursday August 22, 2019 @12:11PM (#20769614)
And, under current circumstances, do you see congressional approval to be forthcoming? For myself, I rather doubt it.

[Edit: Why isn't amending the Constitution a hack? Because it's the recognized mechanism for changing the rules.

What makes the compact a hack? I guess it feels like a hack because the expectation is that, if you're going to change the way the president gets elected, you have to change the Constitution - and therefore having to withstand the full level of scrutiny that such a change would involve. Changing it within the parameters allowed - just barely - by the Constitution is not technically a hack, legally. But it's still feels like a hack to make the change without as much scrutiny, and without the need for the massive majority. At least, so it seems to me.]

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Thursday August 22, 2019 @01:35PM (#20770492)
Right now, no. Next time the Democrats have control of both chambers, though, it seems possible.

In any case, my point is just that a constitutional amendment isn’t required and this is totally above-board. The odds of an amendment being ratified are far lower.

Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by pseudalopex on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @07:48PM (#20763180)
The Supreme Court doesn't issue advisory opinions.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mieseratte on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:06PM (#20762377)
The EC is a check on populism, and very clearly still needed.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by mikeash on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:07PM (#20762396)
The EC never fulfilled that function. Faithless electors have never changed the outcome of an election. The notion that the EC exists to ensure that popular sentiment doesn’t elect someone deeply unfit for the office was definitely disproven in the last election.
Re:15 states are trying to make the electoral college obselete by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:24PM (#20762551)
Swinging it to Hillary would also have elected someone deeply unfit for the office.

I agree that last election was the perfect scenario for the EC to do its job. But who should it have elected instead? And, could it have actually done so without touching off a civil war? (Not a rhetorical one, not a metaphorical one - a real live shooting live rounds, dead bodies piling up, state against state and brother against brother civil war.)