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Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by kebman on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:30AM (#20755427)
I think nobody is commenting because it makes them feel helpless... It's sad, but what can one man do about it? I mean, I wish I could, but...
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by isostatic on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:21AM (#20755396)
What do you propose? UN action to invade Brazil? Germany and Norway have already frozen aid they pay to Brazil
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by enibundo on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:29AM (#20755423)
You know how US gathers forces to go fight in iraq etc?

Imagine if they did the same thing to help nature. I am not even talking about sending their people, just the mobilisation of politics to act on important subjects.

Til we forget the "my lawn, your shit" way of thinking shit will be going south

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by lucasfcosta on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:36AM (#20755464)
This is not how it works.

This situation is entirely different. You are missing a lot of the nuance here. Brazil is a huge country which supplies many countries with countless commodities and other products. External military intervention would only make the situation worse.

This is not how international politics work.

I'm definitely not in favour of what has happened in Iraq, but brute-forcing every problem with external intervention makes absolutely no sense.

In this case, it's reasonably clear that this situation is awful, but if we start turning everything into B/W and ignoring the value of dialogue soon we'll run into other more nuanced disagreements being solved through violence.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by enibundo on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:39AM (#20755480)
I think your logics is flawed here :

> external intervention

We are all internal to the same world/nature.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by newsgremlin on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @11:52AM (#20758419)
Your mixing logic between the issue of a "one world" and a solution that lays in the conceptual boundaries of nationhood.

A world green police sounds great (better than a world oil reserve police atleast) but that requires a world government to come up with the authority and solution that does not result in suffering.

It's not going to work if the country you live in is secluded from the world and is exploiting the resources of the world for the commodities and relative fortune.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by gtirloni on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:31AM (#20755719)
Ignoring the very concept of countries and sovereignty will not help fix the current situation.

I understand people are disillusioned with politicians everywhere in the world but we should not abandon politics because of that.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by isostatic on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:29AM (#20755998)
> You know how US gathers forces to go fight in iraq etc?

So you want to invade Brazil to stop them burning their forest?

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by krick on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:42AM (#20755769)
Seeing people like you, perceiving USA invading whoever they want as a completely normal thing to do since "USA is good, obviously" makes me ready to support even fucking China in the military race against USA...
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by tluyben2 on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:31AM (#20755433)
Something has to be done; this president will be remembered for doing a lot of damage. He'll be dead (and at least he made the history books with something...) so he won't care, but the generations after will suffer.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by adrianN on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:22AM (#20755671)
Trade sanctions would be a good start. Just don't import any agricultural products from Brazil. Make important tariffs inversely proportional to rain forest area.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by isostatic on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:30AM (#20756002)
And the public will support that?
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by adrianN on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @06:40AM (#20756043)
I'd support it, I don't know about the public.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by isostatic on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @09:59AM (#20757196)
Say that you're planning to increase the cost of food and see how well it goes down
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by adrianN on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @10:49AM (#20757748)
Say that you're protecting domestic farmers from international competition that drives prices down by literally burning down one of the most precious ecosystems on Earth and see how well that goes down.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by onevu on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:25AM (#20755410)
>we are all responsible, it's not Brazil's responsibility, it's World's responsibility to take care of nature.

Eh, no. The part of the Amazon that is in Brazil belongs to Brazil.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by oblio on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:28AM (#20755417)
If you burn down your house and the fire spills over to my house, it stops being just your problem.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by lucb1e on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:04AM (#20755595)
So... do we invade the USA for being the most pollutive country?
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by onevu on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:38AM (#20755474)
Has the fire spilled over other country?
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by onevu on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:33AM (#20755734)
That doesn't look like fire to me.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by enibundo on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:43AM (#20755502)
Do you understand how nature works?

You know ANYTHING about air?

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by consp on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:43AM (#20755497)
The pollution and collateral global impact does.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by benjymo on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:42AM (#20755496)
Co2
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by ctrl-j on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:30AM (#20755428)
And yet the 20% of the earth's oxygen provided, and the additional CO2 the Amazon absorbs is kind of a big deal for the rest of us.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by enibundo on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:27AM (#20755413)
This is how it has been functioning til now. Of course. But one should have 1% critical/analytical brain to understand that this is not how it should be going.

If you don't consider yourself subject subject to change you are doomed to disappear.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by lucasfcosta on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:31AM (#20755437)
I think that the problem here is not agreeing on whether this is awful. It's already pretty clear that it is.

However, other countries cannot intervene. Brazilian borders are Brazilian, any other country that wants to help needs to be authorised by Brazilian authorities.

The real problem here is that Brazil's leaders are awful and there's nothing that can be done in regards to that. It's only possible to protest and fight against them in a legal manner.

Romanticizing revolution is ineffective. It's not only extremely hard but also infeasible to destroy all power structures already in place.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by hjrnunes on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:39AM (#20755482)
Funny how no one proposed to remove California from US sovereignty when the fires were raging awhile back.

Or the Gulf of Mexico coast with the Deep Horizon incident.

---

Não vai encontrar razoabilidade aqui, amigo. Esta gente julga que manda no mundo inteiro.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by icebraining on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:14AM (#20755638)
There's only one person in the thread even suggesting anything close to "removing sovereignty", yet you're already seeing a horde of enemies.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by hjrnunes on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:42AM (#20755770)
I count the parent, and a couple more replying with something-must-be-done answers at the suggestion that the territory be forcefully or otherwise removed from Brazilian sovereignty.

There are other comments in other sub-threads.

Also, this pretext isn't a new idea, and there's heavyweight international support for it.

“Contrary to what Brazilians think, the Amazon is not their property, it belongs to all of us,” Al Gore, then a senator, said in 1989.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/weekinreview/18barrionuev...

The Latin-American Bishops Conference denounced this back in 2007:

The growing assault on the environment may serve as a pretext for proposals to internationalize the Amazon, which only serve the economic interests of transnational corporations. Pan-Amazon society is multiethnic, multicultural, and multireligious. The dispute over the occupation of the land is intensifying more and more. The traditional communities of the region want their lands to be recognized and legalized.

https://www.celam.org/aparecida/Ingles.pdf Paragraph 86

The Brazilian Amazon territory borders British, French and Dutch interests in Guyana, French Guyana and Suriname, respectively.

So, I don't see a horde of enemies, but I see an agenda.

In my view, Bolsonaro's tenure is viewed as an opportunity to further this agenda, and that's if he's not in it himself.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by Ma8ee on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:31AM (#20755436)
Yes, but if climate change is part of the cause of the fires we are all responsible by contributing greenhouse gases.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by efdee on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:43AM (#20755499)
From the article:

"There is nothing abnormal about the climate this year or the rainfall in the Amazon region, which is just a little below average," Inpe researcher Alberto Setzer told Reuters.

"The dry season creates the favourable conditions for the use and spread of fire, but starting a fire is the work of humans, either deliberately or by accident."

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by scarejunba on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @12:52PM (#20759014)
And if you want Brazil’s Amazon to sink your carbon, why don’t you pay Brazil to sink your carbon? Or do you want them to do that for free while each of you burn 7 times as much as each of them? Well, good luck with that.
Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by lucasfcosta on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @04:27AM (#20755414)
Even as a Brazilian I have to agree with the comments stating that it's our responsibility to take care of our part of the Amazon.

Unfortunately, people chose to elect an awful president and there's nothing we can do about it other than protest.

Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has ever had since the military dictatorship.

Re:Amazon fires: Record number burning in Brazil rainforest by burning-madness on Wednesday August 21, 2019 @05:13AM (#20755631)
> Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has ever had since the military dictatorship.

The military dictatorship's human rights record was horrible and perverse, but at least they had better technical management and were nationalists. It's crazy we're down to the level of saying "well, but at least" when talking about the military dictatorship, but it is what it is.

Embrapa, Embraer, Petrobras, Eletrobras, the Rio - Niterói bridge, the nuclear power plants in Angra dos Reis, the nuclear power plant in Itaipu, the satellite launch station in Alcântara, among many others, were investments of the military dictatorship.

The current guy on the other is an entreguista and wants foreign military forces to have authority in Alcântara. A que ponto chegamos?!

I think Bolsonaro is the worst leader this country has had since, well, since pretty much recorded history.