Somebody once called the suicide hotline at my dorm and the cops showed up. This lead to everyone in the dorm knowing she called the hotline, probably not the outcome she intended at all.

There really should be an offering for people who just need to honestly talk to someone without consequence or follow up (barring cases involving harm to others).

I think a big reason so many people deal with depression in silence and end up committing suicide is because they don't want the attention or being put into the mental health system. They need someone who'll listen to them be completely honest about all the problems that they can't be open about with friends and get it all out without the whole neighborhood knowing or being fucking detained.

Plenty of people are going through temporary troubles and don't want "depressed/suicidal/a risk to themselves and others" tacked onto their name forever. But as it is, a lot of our mental health frameworks are set up that way and it leads to people choosing a quieter way out.

I know loads of people will defend wellness checks or putting people in a hospital for a while. For some people going through extreme crises, it is good. But we need a very clear and obvious option for people who aren't a danger to others and just need an anonymous chat once in a while and want to be left alone the minute they hang up the phone. I think men in particular, especially since a large number have nobody who they can honestly vent about their problems with, are in need of something like this. They don't want to be seen as weak, they don't want to be thrown into the system, they just need someone to talk to.

In men’s issues (where I volunteer), the reason they don’t generally call the police or subscribe to a psychologist is because of incels who commit terrorist attacks. Who would want to call the police and say they’re upset with the system, knowing the first thing the police may do to remove the risk is to remove... you? Sometimes they go to a psy, under a false name.

A men are the first suiciders, so it’s worth weighing this is. Once we find a group for them where they can share the problems they have with women, they’re generally defused and talk about their thoughts years later. It’s living in the omerta and denial of women’s issues that multiplies anger.

> There really should be an offering for people who just need to honestly talk to someone without consequence or follow up.

The vast majority of people who call suicide hotlines do it for this purpose.

I know people who called and got a 1 week trip.

A problem is there's a "risk" in calling. There's no 100% guarantee that you won't get a knock on your door 30 minutes later.

I know people will say that suicide has a clear and obvious risk, too. The problem is that people fear the embarrassment of being paid a visit or people knowing about their troubles more than they do death.

Better than the alternative.

You know the reputation that US cops have earned themselves for violence? It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person.

>It has gotten so bad that some police forces will not do welfare checks any longer because they are tired of the bad press that follows when they kill yet another suicidal person.

Maybe I have low expectations but stopping doing something because they're killing too many people unnecessarily seems like a big and uncommon step in the right direction for most law enforcement agencies. Usually they just deny, deny, deny.

Have they tried not killing people?

“Death by cop” is a form of suicide. Some will try to create a situation where the cop has no choice but to kill or be killed.

Cops will regularly escalate a volatile situation because they have no incentives not to. Come on, about 1000 people are shot dead by police every year, that's an outlier in the civilized world. Firearms are rarer outside the US, but anyone can pick up a kitchen knife, which is just as deadly. Strangely enough, outside the US, deadly shootings involving the cops are actually news.

I wish we would put more effort into policing the police, but for some reason, cops seem to stick up for each other even when a crime may have been committed.

I believe that most cops are good, but the position definitely attracts people who like violence/power. I don't know the solution here, but there has to be a way to help good cops get the recognition they deserve without forcing them to betray their fellow officers to eliminate the bad.

Earlier this year, a video of the NYPD impounding a dirtbike made the rounds: https://nypost.com/2019/04/08/nypd-officer-wipes-out-on-dirt...

There was a large group of arsehole youth tearing through the area on their dirtbikes, and some fellow came off his bike, he escaped by hopping on his friend's bike, but the bike was left behind, and the police had to remove it.

In the video we are treated to a group of officers egging on a colleague to get on the bike and take it to the precinct. The victim had clearly never ridden motorbike before, and it ends up as expected, the guy tears across a busy intersection through a red light, wipes out, nearly hitting two cars. And then he picks himself up from the ground and none of his "friends" assists him. Oh, and no helmet, no protective clothing, presumably no license, but open weapons. The guy did something wrong and was made fun of in public.

Unit discipline in the leading city in the US is bad beyond all description. There is no good cop in all of that video, not a single one. They all deserve to have serious discipline imposed, but that will never happen.

So, I volunteer for one of the centers that answers calls to the National Suicide Prevention Line (NSPL).

The training that we get involves risk assessing the caller by asking them questions. I won't go into details, but it's very rare that we would call emergency services without the caller's consent, and it would require the caller to tell us that they're in imminent risk of taking their life, and also that they aren't willing to work with us on finding a means of staying safe.

The training that we get puts a lot of emphasis on protecting the dignity and autonomy and privacy of the caller.

There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc.

>There's no one national center, calls to NSPL get routed to the center that's closest to you geographically (I believe that's based on area code). Different centers may have different training and policies, etc.

I would definitely argue that this is the case. Like you, I also volunteer for one of the NSPL crisis centers, and we don't generally call emergency services unless it's absolutely necessary, but there are definitely stories out there where they were called when (in my personal opinion as a volunteer) it was not required. I seem to remember a story about a veteran getting an unwelcomed visit from law enforcement simply because they owned guns and had suicidal thoughts with no intent to harm themselves. If I can find the story again I will link it.

Some cities have dedicated mental health crisis units that are trained to deal with such situations, and some cities do not. In most of these cases, emergency services are only called if the situation escalates out of the control of the person on the phone or therapist. E.g.:

Situation 1:

Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?"

Client/Hotline caller: "No, I just can't stop thinking about it and I don't see any other way out."

Therapist/volunteer: Gives resources, talks "Do you think you will be safe until you can make it to counseling/crisis center/other help?"

Client/Hotline caller: "Yes."

no emergency services are called

Situation 2:

Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?"

Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have this bottle of pills/knife/rope and I'm doing it tonight."

Therapist/volunteer: tries to talk them out of it, and get positive affirmation that they will be safe, but fails

emergency services are called

Situation 3:

Therapist/volunteer: "Are you planning to kill yourself right now?"

Client/Hotline caller: "Yes, I have a gun and I'm going to kill someone else too"

cops are called immediately

Those are extremely contrived examples and I'm not a therapist/volunteer myself (I just know a few), but that's generally how it goes. Emergency services are called only when the caller has a concrete plan, the means, and refuses alternatives or represents a danger to others. In some places with poor services (read: places that probably need them the most, unfortunately) this just winds up being poorly trained cops and people get shot sometimes because the cop "felt threatened". Bear this in mind in how you communicate such an emergency, if you ever face it with a loved one. Know your resources.

Without evidence, this seems like a pretty irresponsible thing to suggest.

"Will the Police Get Called If I'm Suicidal and Call a Suicide Hotline?

This is a tricky question and the answer is neither "yes" nor "no." In the vast majority of cases, no police (or other authority) involvement is required and in the cases where emergency help is needed, suicide hotline staff will make every attempt to gain permission to send them. The goal of a suicide hotline is to help you with your personal crisis and no one-size-fits-all solution is possible.

That being said, if you are actively suicidal and threatening to imminently hurt yourself, it is possible that emergency personnel may be called without your permission. While no one likes that scenario, it truly is the best, lifesaving thing an operator can do in a small number of cases."

From: https://www.healthyplace.com/suicide/suicide-hotline-what-ha...

Without evidence, any comment you make is uninformed, so maybe spend a few seconds with your favorite search engine before commenting.

There are numerous reports of police showing up to suicide calls and shooting someone.[1][2][3][4][5] There's certainly a discussion to be had here about whether the shootings are self defense, but Taylor_OD's speculation is certainly not "without evidence".

[1] https://www.blacknews.com/news/matthew-tucker-fatally-shot-p...

[2] https://www.twincities.com/2018/04/12/sheriffs-deputy-fatall...

[3] https://www.nwahomepage.com/news/knwa/police-investigate-dep...

[4] https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/southwest-valley/...

[5] https://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/breaking-officer-involve...

Did you actually bother reading your articles?

The person was shot after attacking the cops. You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun.

> The person was shot after attacking the cops.

The person? There's five different articles with five different people.

> You make it sound like they just shot these people for fun.

Did you actually bother reading my post? I brought up the possibility that the shootings were self-defense--nowhere did I blame the cops.

If things go south, in the US, yes, you can be sectioned. That probably shouldn't be seen as a negative, though. You'd typically be taken to an ER where a qualified medical professional would talk to you and decide whether you're likely to need assistance from a hospital. If you are, you're sectioned, which means you're placed under observation for three business days. During that time, they would typically provide a wealth of medical and mental services to you; full check-ups, access to therapists, etc. You're also given free access to a lawyer, if you so choose.

If, after three days, they determine that you're not a danger to yourself or anyone else, out the door you go. If they determine that you're in harm's way, they talk to you and make recommendations. You don't have to agree to any of them. Typically they involve plans for moving forward, like making arrangements to see appropriate medical professionals on a regular basis, finding housing (if you're homeless), enrolling in rehab... whatever is relevant to your case.

If they decide you need to stay, but you say you want to leave, they can either take the matter to court, or they can let you walk out the door. I've only ever talked to one person who landed in that situation; it doesn't seem to happen to most people who get sectioned.

Obviously, some areas of the US have worse medical and mental care than others. If you're in a part of the US that's lacking in that regard, it could be more like a jail sentence than assistance.

Remember that in the end they will send you a bill for this entire circus, so unless it's an acute emergency you do not actually want any of this.

That depends very much on the circumstances. With decent insurance, they'll pay for almost all of it. Depending on your location, the state, federal government, or hospital may be required to foot the bill.

If the alternative is being dead, well... but yes, you don't want it unless it's a serious emergency. Chances are a welfare check isn't going to result in sectioning anyway, though.

There's a more fundamental issue - a mental health crisis is a medical emergency, not a crime. Police officers are rarely trained in mental health first aid and are not appropriate first responders. The default should be to dispatch an ambulance, with police support if specifically required.