> Google doesn't even pay well enough to treat people poorly. [...] Meanwhile a smaller tech startup will pay better [...] maybe even not work you 80+hours a week

Having worked both at Google and at smaller tech startups, this is pretty much the opposite of reality. I wonder where are you getting these ideas from.

Is google just particularly dogged about salary negotiations, then? The numbers I've seen for someone new to the org don't impress me relative to the competitive baseline. Maybe you have to ask way higher, or you have to come in at a high level already?

Where do you see significantly better salaries? You might be ignoring the stock compensation which is basically like cash for an established stable company like Google

This is actually a common complaint on Blind (anonymous social networking site).

Google seems to consistently low ball relative to other companies (Facebook, Apple, uber, etc.)

Obviously depends on the team/role but seems like google is trying to leverage its “prestigious brand” to pay less

exactly this.

He's right that Google doesn't generally pay competitively, but wrong in comparing to smaller startups. It's some of the larger companies (Facebook, LinkedIn, AirBnB, etc.) that Google tends to fall short of.

Interesting, I don't have that impression. levels.fyi doesn't show much disparity, for example. Where do you get this from?

They have a tendency to down-level a lot, which won't show up on levels.fyi (though if you look at the leveling by years of experience it might be extractable).

Also, from what I understand they tend to lowball much more aggressively than other top companies if you don't have any strong competing offers. Levels.fyi submitters will of course be the kinds of people who tend to shop around and get competing offers.

A smaller tech startup only pays better if you pick the right one and it has an exit.

One appeal of the big names is exactly that — name recognition. It does a lot for the ego when everyone you meet knows that your employer provides free massages and a sushi bar for lunch.

Free massages and sushi bars don't pay rent!

And I'm not talking about mythical exit money, I'm talking about cold hard biweekly salary. I make more money at a small startup than it seems I would make at Google, for example.

Stock based compensation happens quarterly, which is frequent enough to be a regular stream of compensation (and you get a sign-on bonus when you start so you don't have to wait for liquidity either).

You sure about that [0]?

[0]: https://www.levels.fyi/salary/Google/

I think your situation is more unusual than you think.

Small startups vary a lot in what they pay, and in what they can afford to pay. Mostly it's lower than FAANG pay.

95% of small tech startups won't pay anywhere near what Google would offer.

Maybe your offer at Google isn't the reality of all offers.