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Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by sprafa on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:46PM (#20671798)
Fascinating that so much money is going into blockchain startups when I can’t think of that many useful applications for it.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by SkyPuncher on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:49PM (#20671813)
Agreed, nearly every commercial use seems better off simply relying on a centrally trusted authority.

"This has to be on the blockchain. But! don't look behind the curtain to everything else in our company that relies (and thrives) on a single point of trust.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by H8crilA on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:56PM (#20671844)
Including quick money transfer. FED is working on an upgrade that will allow instant USD transfers. There's absolutely no reason why the central banks of the world cannot have instant transfers using their non-blockchain databases.

BTC is only good as a deflationary pseudo-commodity, like gold. And like gold a good holding amount is probably below 10%, I'd say below 5% of the portfolio.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by teh_infallible on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:59PM (#20671855)
Yes, I always look to the FED for cutting edge technology. /s
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by H8crilA on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:46PM (#20672012)
Instant money transfer is not cutting edge. Some countries have had it for decades (albeit at a premium cost).
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pjc50 on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:51AM (#20674938)
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pilingual on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:10PM (#20671898)
The underlying blockchains often do not have central authority; that is, no one entity can make a rash decision for bitcoin tomorrow.

Cryptokitties can manipulate their contract, so in that case it is true a central authority is in control. Even though Bitcoin has been around 10 years there is still a lot of development and people are still figuring out how to approach this type of thing. The obvious answer is to start with a central contract and have a mechanism to slowly decentralize or remove ownership. It’s going to take time to get it right but it will happen (and even cryptokitties can upgrade their contract to include this logic).

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by grey-area on Monday August 12, 2019 @01:41AM (#20672738)
The underlying blockchains often do not have central authority; that is, no one entity can make a rash decision for bitcoin tomorrow.

I disagree, they have plenty of pinch points which allow de facto control.

The small group of core developers control the laws of the currency and directly tied to that its value. They can perform hard forks and change all the rules. The users have very little influence there.

Exchanges control which currencies are popular, along with huge amounts of the money in circulation, and change things like deposit/withdraw rules arbitrarily.

The miners can attack the currency to rewrite history (has been done), refuse to use new rules, or switch to a new currency.

Many of the fundamental tenets of bitcoin as it started out (that most users will mine, that most users will take care of their own wallets) have been proven too optimistic when in widespread use. People just don't want decentralised things given the massive tradeoffs and the rewards of centralisation for companies are too great.

I think blockchains like bitcoin are a very interesting experiment, and currencies will escape state control as nation states continue to wither away, but none of the current currencies is fit to take that role, nor was the pivot of startups to 'blockchains for...x' a good idea - it's a solution in search of a problem in most cases. We are unfortunately more likely to see a corporate currency or one from a superstate take that role than a decentralised one.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by yyyyip on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:17AM (#20673511)
If you (or anyone else) think you can effectively break bitcoin then there is a billion dollar bounty available to you in the form of a highly leveraged bitfinex short position.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pjc50 on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:18AM (#20674686)
Short positions on highly volatile (and probably manipulated) markets are extremely vulnerable to short squeezes. There's no good way to take out a leveraged short that's guaranteed to remain in place for, say, six months.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by hollerith on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:32AM (#20674789)
Good to know, but just because any particular short position is not guaranteed to remain in place for six months doesn't mean there is no good way to profit from shorting Bitcoin.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pjc50 on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:49AM (#20674922)
The problem is that a leveraged short position that is closed out/margin called can lose more money than you initially invested. The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pilingual on Monday August 12, 2019 @04:51AM (#20673665)
Much of this comment is straw men (exchanges, miners, wallets).

Anyone running a node can indeed decide what software they run. That’s exactly my point. There’s no such thing as “they” performing hard forks. Developers make decisions, sometimes they disagree and fork. Miners make decisions on which fork they want to run. Users are free to run a node.

Generalizing “blockchains for x” doesn’t do much good. Sure there are terrible blockchain projects as there are terrible app ideas, but there are quite a few good projects out there. I’m a fan of Keep.network for example.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pjc50 on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:17AM (#20674678)
.. but the meaning of the blockchain and its purchasing power (or other real-world effects) are entirely determined by the software that interprets it. We've seen this a number of times, such as the Ethereum "DAO" roll back.

> Miners make decisions on which fork they want to run.

Miners are surprisingly consolidated, so this mostly determines which version "wins". And the economic value of which fork wins is determined by the markets. If you keep running the "wrong" version of a fork you find out that it's worthless and only the coins on the "right" one retain value.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by SpicyLemonZest on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:25PM (#20671941)
The question is why it's the right choice for the underlying blockchains not to have a central authority. There are costs and benefits to decentralization, and I've very rarely seen a blockchain startup weigh the two rather than just touting the benefits.

(I know this is a high standard for any new technology; I'm not saying I expect it on the front page of their website.)

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by tootahe45 on Monday August 12, 2019 @08:29AM (#20674762)
If you take a look around you'll see it's mostly non-technical people throwing their money into the crypto space (see reddit.com/r/bitcoin), unfortunately, this applies to investors too. How many years has it been and still all we have is 200 different shitecoins.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by ian0 on Monday August 12, 2019 @03:40AM (#20673332)
There is a very useful application for blockchain: Leverage banks desire to stay current and not loose out in the next wave of change in order to sell them platforms which generate far more interesting press releases than a regular database would..

Like no CTO ever got fired for choosing IBM - No digital transformation manager ever got hired without at least mentioning blockchain.

(Edited to add: Note this isn't a bad thing per-say. Ive seen blockchain used as ammo to do push something through thats actually useful, regardless of whether it was the most apt tech choice or not.)

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by dangero on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:22AM (#20672399)
This chart looks like it's only through 2018. My hunch would be that Blockchain is down or flat thus far this year.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by ttul on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:56PM (#20671848)
Since the author doesn’t cite a source for his graphs, we are left to speculate on how recent the data is. Blockchain certainly seemed to me to be very hot in 2018. Not so much this year.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by pilingual on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:05PM (#20671881)
More companies and developers are entering the cryptocurrency space, though there are certainly defunct companies, too.

DeFi is the most concentrated aspect of blockchain at the moment. Assets going into DeFi are up and to the right: https://defipulse.com/

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by dangero on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:22AM (#20672402)
It says through 2018
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by seibelj on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:43PM (#20672003)
Blockchain allows protocols for finance. Derivative contracts like perpetual futures are inherently better than old-school futures. The innovation is much more rapid. Building a new exchange becomes permissionless. Assets can flow from old exchanges to new, or be moved around to many rapidly. All of this is simply better than the current exchange situation - 24/7 trading, low fees, rapid innovation, easy capital formation. Finance will move to the crypto rails because it’s better.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by sklut on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:04PM (#20672067)
How is a perpetual futures contract inherently better than "old-school futures"? It is my understanding what cyrpto calls a perpetual future _isn't_ a future which makes them difficult to compare. I'm reading this comment as if perpetual futures are going to replace our current futures system somehow, and I don't see this possibility.

Don't we have 24/7 trading without the block chain? And low fees?

It appears all the many of these benefits you mention are for those just transacting in a crypto currency, and not for the other 99% of finance transacting in other currencies (and physical goods).

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by seibelj on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:26PM (#20672153)
I explained more in the other comment, it isn't inherently better as you say, but it's different and innovative.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by nickles on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:04PM (#20672064)
> Derivative contracts like perpetual futures are inherently better than old-school futures.

Can you elaborate on this? Physically settled futures are important to producers and consumers of commodities. I can imagine that replacing these with a cash settled contract might increase spot volatility.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by seibelj on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:25PM (#20672146)
You are right, it is a different product, it isn't inherently better simply because it's perpetual. But it is quite interesting and provides different trading strategies to the standard futures contract. See https://www.bitmex.com/app/perpetualContractsGuide for a good explanation for how Bitmex's implementation works which is the most popular version.

I think a lot of exotic derivative contracts will be innovated in the crypto exchange networks, and those that become popular will eventually applied to traditional commodities and equities once the bureaucracy comes up with regulations in 5 to 10 years.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by mgamache on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:49PM (#20671811)
we are probably still early in the hype cycle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by xenospn on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:27PM (#20671948)
All about FOMO.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by n_t on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:28PM (#20672165)
What about dfinity.org?
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by neom on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:17AM (#20672384)
Blockchain has many useful applications: art, insurance, property inference. imo the problem is the systemic changes are not worth the gains (inertia is strong, therefore not that useful?).
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by somebodythere on Monday August 12, 2019 @12:37AM (#20672450)
Trustless/trust-lite blockchains are a strong fit for many applications, but far from proportionate to the number of applications being attempted.

Take, for example, property titles on the blockchain. Sounds promising. But property rights are ultimately enforced by governments (namely, the government that projects control over the area on which the property sits) through their legal systems.

In this case, for the majority of reasonable threat models, blockchains add complexity without adding value. Say that your wallet is holding a title token. I hack your computer and use your private key to transfer the token to my wallet. According to the blockchain, I am now the rightful of the property. However, it's very unlikely that your government would recognize me as the owner. The government wouldn't let me move all my stuff over and start living there just because the property token is in my wallet. The blockchain state and de facto/de jure state have diverged.

Similarly, say the government becomes tyrannical and begins seizing property. The property token in your wallet will, once again, not save you. You will be jailed. The "code is law" of blockchains becomes redundant to the "law is law" of governments.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by neom on Monday August 12, 2019 @10:13AM (#20675561)
I hadn't thought about this and it's an excellent point, thanks for making it.
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by Alex3917 on Sunday August 11, 2019 @10:30PM (#20671956)
You could say the same thing about SQL databases, but all billion-dollar companies are built on them.

In 50 years there won’t be a single Fortune 500 company that isn’t built on DLT.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by ericd on Sunday August 11, 2019 @11:20PM (#20672119)
I didn’t downvote you, but that’s a pretty extraordinary statement that could use some explanation. How do you see it being used such that it reaches that level of ubiquity?
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by Alex3917 on Monday August 12, 2019 @03:15PM (#20678848)
Any time two or more different parties enter into any sort of business relationship, they need to spend tons of money on third-party service providers tracking who owns what. If DLT can reduce the cost of that by, say, 60 - 80% then that's a savings of several trillion dollars per year.

If you read a book about the impact that double entry accounting had on the world then I think it's easier to imagine all the ways that triple entry accounting (DLT) will transform the economy.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by ericd on Monday August 12, 2019 @05:18PM (#20680117)
Interesting, thanks for explaining. Any recommendations for good books on the impact of double entry accounting?
Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by Alex3917 on Tuesday August 13, 2019 @09:59AM (#20685879)
There is a book called Double Entry. The first few chapters are worth reading to understand how it actually changed the world and created wealth. It gets kind of boring after that.

I think understanding DLT as a 10x less labor-intensive version of double entry accounting is key to understanding its ability to enable new and qualitatively different types of business relationships.

Re:Which Categories of Seed Startups Are Thriving? Which Are... by ericd on Friday August 16, 2019 @04:23PM (#20719360)
I'll check it out, thanks!