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Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by alkonaut on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:10AM (#20662127)
Wow. I don’t think I have seen a situation before where Occam’s razor doesn’t help writing off the conspiracy. It seems harder in this case to believe someone in a jail cell on suicide watch kills themselves than to believe that it was arranged (that is, at least “allowed”). It’s suspiciously sloppy.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by ac29 on Saturday August 10, 2019 @12:56PM (#20663156)
The linked article says its unclear if he was actually on suicide watch: "There are reports that Epstein was placed on suicide watch following [his earlier suicide attempt], although this has not been confirmed by officials"
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by Redoubts on Saturday August 10, 2019 @03:05PM (#20663910)
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...

> Mr. Epstein had been on suicide watch after he was found injured on July 23 and received a daily psychiatric evaluation, according to a person familiar with his detention. He was removed from suicide watch on July 29 and returned to the special housing unit, a segregated area of the prison with extra security, this person said.

> The authorities did not immediately explain why he was taken off suicide watch. The F.B.I. said it was investigating, and Attorney General William P. Barr said in a statement that a special inquiry would be opened into what had happened.

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by einpoklum on Saturday August 10, 2019 @02:17PM (#20663661)
So, after the guy attempted suicide, and is facing a massively embarrassing scrutiny of his sex life, they decided not to put him on suicide watch? That's nearly as suspicious as dying on suicide watch.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by alkonaut on Saturday August 10, 2019 @01:55PM (#20663531)
True, there are very little details yet. But tbh if he was not protected like a mob witness then that’s even sloppier.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by DanBC on Saturday August 10, 2019 @10:33AM (#20662266)
People "on suicide watch" die all the time. It's not super rare.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by TheAceOfHearts on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:26AM (#20668072)
One of CNN's legal analysts said in a tweet [0] that he can't recall hearing of any successful suicides happening in the prison where Epstein was detained.

I tried searching for reports or information about other suicides in Metropolitan Correctional Center - New York (MCC-NY) but wasn't able to find examples in the news. Admittedly, I didn't dig very deep and I'm completely unfamiliar with this domain. If you know of any sources showing examples of successful suicides in MCC-NY then I would be interested in learning about them.

Ideally we could review the prison's records for successful and unsuccessful suicides when on suicide watch and during regular imprisonment. The Bureau of Justice Statistics website [1] looks like it should have relevant data on this, but I'm too tired to sift through their reports tonight.

[0] https://twitter.com/eliehonig/status/1160224228232355841

[1] https://www.bjs.gov

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by DanBC on Sunday August 11, 2019 @12:04PM (#20668721)
> One of CNN's legal analysts said in a tweet [0] that he can't recall hearing of any successful suicides happening in the prison where Epstein was detained.

We need to be clear how they define suicide, which may not include all self-inflicted death.

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by ASalazarMX on Saturday August 10, 2019 @01:32PM (#20663386)
It's not super common either. He was a very high profile criminal, but also a potential witness against very high profile people. Special precautions should have been taken.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by tfha on Saturday August 10, 2019 @02:28PM (#20663727)
And he was under 24/7 camera surveillance. If it was a clean suicide there should be video evidence.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by FireBeyond on Saturday August 10, 2019 @06:12PM (#20664771)
And wouldn't you know it? "Oops, camera malfunction. We'll investigate that, too..."
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by 2_listerine_pls on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:01PM (#20665943)
That's indeed what happened.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by wellyeah on Sunday August 11, 2019 @06:06AM (#20667385)
I believe you, but could you cite a source on there being a camera and it malfunctioning? Because damn, this is just getting truly impossible to believe it was just a suicide.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by 2_listerine_pls on Sunday August 11, 2019 @09:53AM (#20668174)
I shouldn't have affirm it. @michaelcoudrey tweeted it yesterday, without a source, and others followed.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by DanBC on Saturday August 10, 2019 @02:30PM (#20663735)
Right, but "not super common" isn't "this is impossible".

See eg Fred West.

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by hume77 on Saturday August 10, 2019 @11:55AM (#20662736)
Neither is corruption.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by brador on Saturday August 10, 2019 @12:02PM (#20662788)
Name two.
Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by DanBC on Saturday August 10, 2019 @12:31PM (#20662978)
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/bjpsych-bulletin/art...

> Suicides between 23.00 h and 07.00 h are rare, and these overwhelmingly occur under intermittent observations. Such observation is purely a defensive intervention to document that a patient is safe at a particular time, as there is no engagement.

I work with anonymised data. If you want actual names I'm going to have to trawl through coroner's reports.

Or you could have a look at this, which says about 18 patients per year in the UK: https://documents.manchester.ac.uk/display.aspx?DocID=37570

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by brador on Saturday August 10, 2019 @01:23PM (#20663327)
The UK and US have very different prison systems and prison protocols. I don't think their numbers can be compared.

Additionally, Epstein was under suicide watch. Which should have made suicide practically impossible without outside intervention. Given the money and power at play here, murder made to look like a suicide is a very real possibility.

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by DanBC on Saturday August 10, 2019 @01:26PM (#20663344)
Please read the links I supply which talk about patients in a hospital, but importantly these are patients under "suicide watch" -- this is what intermittent or continuous obs are for, to prevent suicide and self harm.

People in this thread don't know what "suicide watch means". They seem to think it's 24 hour continuous monitoring.

It may mean someone looks through a door hatch once every 15 minutes.

But also, he may not have been on suicide watch: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/10/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...

Re:Jeffrey Epstein: Financier 'found dead in cell' in New York by bjoli on Saturday August 10, 2019 @04:05PM (#20664232)
I can only talk about Swedish jails, but suicide attempts where People are held before prosecution and before sentencing (called arrest and häkte) are common enough. Just random googling gives me this: https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/sjalvmordsforsok-sker-var...

Saying that there is a suicide attempt every week in Swedish "Häkte", meaning about 52 attempts per year with an average of 9000 people in "häkte" over the course of one year. And that is only in the cases where people are actually prosecuted. There are lots of mentions of suicides in "arrest" as well.