Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Self Driving technology

Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by kjksf on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @12:23AM (#20631956)

You could have made the same argument about any hard problem before it was solved.

"So this guy says a machine can outplay chess with just a CPU, some memory and a bit of code. He neglects to mention that humans have a brain capable of general intelligence".

Year later, computer beats human in chess.

"So this guy says you can teach a computer to play Go just by unsupervised training of neural networks. He neglects to mention that humans have a brain capable of general intelligence".

Year later, computer beats human in Go.

"So this guys says you can program neural network to play computer games competitively using vision and deep learning. He neglects to mention that humans have a brain capable of general intelligence".

We don't need AGI for self driving.

The difficulty of self driving is probably less than a dog walking on the street.

No, a dog doesn't steer a car, because he doesn't have hands, but he's performing the same vision and planning tasks like a human (or AI) driving a car.

He knows where he is, he knows where he wants to go and he uses vision and his non-AGI brain to plan a path to get there while also avoiding dynamic, unexpected obstacles.

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by AndrewBissell on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @02:46AM (#20632461)

Do you have any counterexamples which aren't finite games where all the potential moves and outcomes can (at least in theory) be exhaustively enumerated at any point in time?

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by marcinzm on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @04:07AM (#20632793)

You can approximate most everything in theory almost perfectly by a set of very large but finite moves. Driving a car can be approximated as a set of finite moves (ie: 0.001 degree changes in wheel position) done at finite intervals (say 10000 "frames" per second). That'd give you more precision and a finer time grain than even a human brain is capable of.

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by Dylan16807 on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @06:25AM (#20633401)

And you don't need a 'very large' set of moves in the first place. 100 wheel positions are enough to give you 1-degree accuracy near neutral, and moderate but sufficient accuracy for strong turns. If you're looking at a delta from the previous position, 30 will do the job. Multiply that by 10 to 40 positions for the pedals, run the whole thing at 20Hz, and you're good to go.

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by lpellis on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @04:49AM (#20632970)

There is Google's Starcraft ai ( https://deepmind.com/blog/alphastar-mastering-real-time-stra... ), the real time nature makes the potential search space absurdly large.

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by snovv_crash on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @12:59PM (#20636559)

kjksf did give an example: Go. The state space there is much larger than could ever be enumerated before the heat death of the universe.

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Re:Contrary to Musk's claim, Lidar has some advantages in Se... by AndrewBissell on Wednesday August 07, 2019 @01:53PM (#20637095)

That's why I said "at least in theory." The fact remains that everything theoretically possible in Go is known ahead of time, and furthermore it is trivial to generate training data and run simulations to improve the algorithm without putting human lives at risk.

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