I don’t think anyone heard “let’s use renewable energy” and immediately thought “of course that means cutting down a bunch of trees”.

If you did, I’d love to hear why this is such an inevitable consequence that it’s worth pointing out how inevitable it is as opposed to putting solar panels literally anywhere else that doesn’t have trees.

I explain it in my comment below. But ultimately its because this is human nature

It's certainly the nature of the culture we inherited. You can look at alternative cultures folks have maintained where they don't spread out as rapidly as possible and have some base notion of conservation and environmentalism and it seems like those folks have a pretty good situation too.

Ever consider re-prioritizing and leading by example?

What about understanding how the world works makes me automatically part of the problem?

I do disagree that there are other cultures with a 'better' notion. Culture matters, but nkt that much in the long run when theres status at stake

> What about understanding how the world works makes me automatically part of the problem?

Pretend, for just a moment, that my proposition was true (as I obviously believe it to be). In that case, you've identified yourself as part of the problem. Especially so because you suggest that your prioritization is inevitable and therefore must be assumed.

> I do disagree that there are other cultures with a 'better' notion.

We can look at the development patterns of some other nations. Not all are so spread out, and not all believe that environmentalism is pointless.

> Culture matters, but nkt that much in the long run when theres status at stake

There's lots of ways to get status.

> Especially so because you suggest that your prioritization is inevitable and therefore must be assumed.

My friend I can guarantee you that despite what I do I will not change the prioritization of half a billion people. An individuals inability or past history of not doing something does not make him or her culpable of supporting the system. By your own measure you too fully support the system I am criticizing.

> We can look at the development patterns of some other nations. Not all are so spread out, and not all believe that environmentalism is pointless

Other nations that have developed in the presence and utilising the products of many other nations that do not share their beliefs.

> There's lots of ways to get status

And yet none of such import on the world stage that you can name it

> And yet none of such import on the world stage that you can name it

You're demanding that an alternative value system have value to you BEFORE you will consider it. This is not very realistic or sensible for obvious reasons.

You're also suggesting your socialization is an inevitable product of human nature. Evolutionary Psychology has been split down the middle on this subject for some time,so I'm skeptical that you can resolve the debate that actual experts can't.

Well wind has a much smaller footprint, and can at least be embedded within the woods without razing the whole thing. The three main issues it seems are visibility, flashing shadows, and the lack of wind

That's not what i meant. I am mainly shocked at the publics general failure to understand human nature and its desire to extract money when incentivized to do so. I dont disagree that wind can have a lower footprint in terms of landspace taken but if solar is more efficient and less expensive then at some point when it becomes long enough lasting to be profitable, then of course those with forests will convert them to solar farms. This was not unforeseeable

You don't even need the solar panels themselves in order to see the effects of perverse incentives. The Kyoto Protocol defines "bioenergy" (energy produced by burning wood) as carbon neutral. As a result, in the EU, they're literally burning up forests for energy, under the banner of environmentalism.

https://news.mongabay.com/2019/03/eu-sued-to-stop-burning-tr...

Large wind turbines are much less sustainable and higher maintenance. They're really only sensible in small scales, where their other disadvantages go away, or when no other option is viable.