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Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by madaxe_again on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @08:53AM (#20564336)
There’s also a bottle just like this (well, extremely similar Roman fish bottle) in the archaeological museum of Burgas, on the Bulgarian coast - I spent about 15 minutes looking at it having my mind blown by the craftsmanship - which would corroborate the Black Sea hypothesis. They however listed it as being a garum bottle, IIRC.

I’m not surprised they ended up finding the only known example across the Atlantic - Bulgaria has great, completely empty, museums - this was one of many where the surprised attendant unlocked the place so we could go in.

Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by ASlave2Gravity on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:12AM (#20564978)
The Natural History Museum in Sofia was pretty much empty this May! My partner and I had the whole place to ourselves. There's an absolutely incredible array of gems and stones, plenty of taxidermy--and I presume models--of all sorts of fauna, and lots of random bits and bobs dotted all around. Bulgaria is a wonderful place!
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by leashless on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:07AM (#20564948)
Garum is fish sauce, I think?
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by madaxe_again on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:53AM (#20565331)
Yeah - basically the ketchup of the day. Worcestershire sauce is apparently the closest extant thing, as it’s made in pretty much the same way - fermented anchovies.
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by tempguy9999 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @12:37PM (#20566522)
I think the closest thing is probably fish sauce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garum#Legacy

Example: Tiparos (on the left) https://importfood.com/products/thai-sauces-condiments/item/...

Happens I can recommend tiparos as it's not brutally salty like others I've met. My guess is that this modern kind of fish sauce is useful (and I've heard it highly spoken of by a semi-professional chef) because it's high in glutamates which taste meaty (umami) but that's just a guess.

Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by sorokod on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:58AM (#20565380)
Curious, why Worcestershire sauce and not any of the fishsouces you can buy in a chinese/Thai/Vietnamese grocery?
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by fapjacks on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @01:32PM (#20567104)
In fact the Vietnamese fish sauces (which are made without adding any sugar or soy, and only made with anchovies and salt) are exactly like the garum and liquamen of ancient Rome.
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by flyingfences on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @11:11AM (#20565526)
GP probably meant "closest" in terms of lineage, not just composition. There's more of a Western connection to Worcestershire.
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by fapjacks on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @01:31PM (#20567083)
You can buy garum today, from manufacturers that claim to follow recipes hundreds of years old. The process is claimed to be unknown, but this is in fact not true: A couple of descriptions exist of the process, for example how it was made in Caesarea, in Judea, which also manufactured murex purple dye.
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by Mediterraneo10 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @02:07PM (#20567491)
For me it is a mystery how a product made all around the Mediterranean in antiquity died out almost completely. Why didn't people in southern France, for example, keep eating garum until the modern day? Was it just changing tastes, sudden loss of necessary ingredients due to breakdown in trade, or recognition that parasites inside fish could survive the garum-making process?
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by fapjacks on Friday August 02, 2019 @06:05AM (#20591792)
It's a great question! One thing I might suggest is human migration displacing garum, or displacing the people that had a taste for it. Between "Antiquity" and today, you're as likely to find an immigrant population as a native one. I've been reading a lot about Roman history, and trying to answer questions like this, and many signs point to migration. The various -goths and Vandals in particular carved the Iberian peninsula (and southern France) out of the increasingly fragmented (Western) Roman Empire. According to the original sources, most of the garum in the Empire was produced in both provinces of Hispania. Considering the, uhh... "dynamism" of that place in the ensuing centuries, it sounds believable to me that garum simply fell out of favor culturally. Trade collapsed after the fall of the Western Roman Empire. So garum shipments from the Empire's largest garum-producing region simply stopped.

It is true however that there are still Italian and Greek garum producers, as I mentioned, who claim to have been producing since Antiquity. Though this is 100% unverifiable, there's little reason to think it's not true. The thing about garum production is that IT IS SMELLY! Very, very smelly. Roman law actually forbade garum production within a certain distance to the city walls. And as the Western Empire began to evaporate, the production of most specialty / delicacy items (think wine, garum, honey, cheese, etc) moved to "wealthy manor homes" which -- because of the danger of the roads -- slowly became the armed fortress fiefdoms of feudal Europe. So probably it just fell out of favor as time wore on, except in a small few exceptional places.

Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by hestipod on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @03:40PM (#20568367)
What does it taste like?
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by madaxe_again on Thursday August 01, 2019 @03:48AM (#20581870)
Umame, in a nutshell. Hard to really quantify, but I recommend trying it!
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by benj111 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @10:37AM (#20565173)
"across the Atlantic"

The UK is on your side of the Atlantic, unless you go the long way round of course.

Edit: I get it, they matched it to the New York example.

Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by Gibbon1 on Tuesday July 30, 2019 @03:30PM (#20568294)
They probably would want to know about that.
Re:Mystery of Chedworth's 1,800-year-old Roman glass shard s... by madaxe_again on Wednesday July 31, 2019 @02:55AM (#20572200)
I very much doubt they want some bloody amateur wading in. They have their processes, and I’m sure they’ll make their own discoveries in their own time.