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Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by Spivak on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:32PM (#20528061)
Do we really need an article to say that the people who pay a company have more influence than the people the company pays. This is pretty much always going to be true in unspecilized labor.

Also, if their new system still has something like the "call option" to guarantee minimums it still seems like it's in everyone's best interest to not tip and get DoorDash paying as much as possible.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by jfengel on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:04PM (#20528379)
It's true for unorganized labor. Organizing has been a powerful tool for people who are "unspecialized" (i.e. easily replaced). If the workers agree to support each other, they have the power to stop work. But it only works if they all agree to it. That's where the organization comes in.

It helps when government regulations exist to reduce employers' ability to find replacements. That's the fundamental conflict that employers can exploit: when they can appeal to each individual to work at cost to the advancement of the entire set of workers, the organization fails. Employers can then reduce pay and worsen working conditions to the poverty level.

A variety of things have reduced the effectiveness of labor organizers over the past few decades, but they were responsible for things like the 5-day, 40-hour workweek and safety regulations. The ability of the Internet to reach out to an even wider set of unskilled workers makes the job nearly impossible.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by slg on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:22PM (#20528565)
>if their new system still has something like the "call option" to guarantee minimums it still seems like it's in everyone's best interest to not tip and get DoorDash paying as much as possible.

DoorDash being scammy doesn't give the customer permission to ignore a social norm. The customer should still tip, just do it in cash outside of the app. It is a little less convenient, but it is better to be inconvenienced than to be an asshole.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by Spivak on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:11PM (#20529088)
Sure it does! Let's go back to DD's old system where people are blissfully unaware that tips go straight to DD's bottom line and none of the money goes to your driver.

All you see as a Dasher is that there is a new delivery for a 'guaranteed minimum' of $10 which in this world means that you will almost never receive anything other than $10. You take the job, deliver the food, and find out after that $3 of that was tip. You take another $10 job and find out that $0 of that was tip.

In this world there is zero expectation of a tip because almost no one tips outside the app and in-app tips are worthless. The reason tipping is expected is because ...it's expected. You're an asshole at a restaurant if you don't tip because ~15% is the baseline, in DD's world the baseline is 0%.

I'm not exactly sure why you're trying to guilt yourself into paying more for the exact same service to a person that is not expecting anything extra. You're doing the equivalent of tipping the cashier at the grocery store.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by slg on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:09PM (#20529734)
You are basing your argument around just doing the minimum. Lots of people want to tip more than whatever you, society, or DoorDash decides it the minimum. Beyond simply being misleading, DoorDash's old model made it extremely difficult for anyone to reward their delivery person with an above average tip.
Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by hombre_fatal on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:28PM (#20528621)
Reminds me of the KenM comment where he gets back at Papa Johns' by not tipping the delivery driver.

https://i.redd.it/jrusids6bggy.png

> I'm not giving my tip dollers to a company that doesn't support working people

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by lightedman on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:47PM (#20528828)
In many places Papa John's gets away with illegally taking tips away from delivery drivers. KenM is actually smart because by not tipping he forces PJ's to make up the missing wage if the driver doesn't hit minimum wage.

Oh! But PJ's screws that over by trying to call the employee an independent contractor. Oh yea, they try the same crap as Uber and Lyft and the other rideshare and delivery companies. In fact, they're practically the modern pioneers of the new 'independent contractor' scam. these 'tech companies' are just copying what the pizza industry has been doing for ages.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:36PM (#20528099)
> This is pretty much always going to be true in unspecilized labor.

Not when regulation steps in. That is what labor law and regulation is for.

The "gig economy" was a tech industry attempt to sidestep labor law, and the law is finally catching up. And mind you, you don't have to outlaw how gig workers are currently treated as contractors everywhere to break these platforms; just in places large enough that without those markets, the platform is no longer barely sustainable (for example, 25% of Uber's bookings occur in just five cities: New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, London, and São Paulo). It doesn't matter much for platforms if gig workers are still legal in say, Wyoming.

https://www.wired.com/story/california-lawmakers-move-protec... (Wired: California Lawmakers Move to Protect Gig-Economy Workers)

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by kd5bjo on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:22PM (#20528557)
> It doesn't matter much for platforms if gig workers are still legal in say, Wyoming.

Why not? While brand recognition is valuable, it makes sense to operate in any jurisdiction in which you operate at a profit. At this point, all of the infrastructure to build the platform in the first place is a sunk cost, though if their total operating volume falls dramatically there maybe some work involved in turning down excess capacity to reduce ongoing costs.

Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by fuzz4lyfe on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:20PM (#20528527)
What regulation ever caused firms to care more about workers than their customers?
Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by knightofmars on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:31PM (#20528657)
I don't think anyone said "care". Regulations are meant to force firms to meet a minimum level of a requirement (eg safety, anti-discrimination, etc).
Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by Spivak on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:43PM (#20528183)
You'll have no disagreement from me but I'm not sure I would say that collective government action is a form of worker influence but rather broader societal influence.
Re:DoorDash’s about-face on tipping shows customers have mor... by toomuchtodo on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:45PM (#20528201)
I agree. It's not about consumers, or workers, but citizens as a whole and the society they want to exist in.