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Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by iamelgringo on Saturday May 31, 2008 @09:03AM (#205235)
It's what his sleep specialist told him, and it's what my sleep MD told me as well. I'd certainly believe what an MD with 12-15 years of education/residency says over wikipedia.

People can build up a tolerance to caffeine by saturating the receptors in the brain that are activated by caffeine. So, after month of daily ingestion, some people can drink 4-8 cups of coffee a day and not have any problems. In this case, it's especially true that your mileage may vary greatly.

I used to be a caffeine fiend. But, when I started having sleep problems, I had to completely quit caffeine, and it does help. I could drink 2-3 triple espresso's in an all-nighter and then sleep like a baby when I was in college. Now, I drink 1/2 a cup of coffee and I'm buzzed for hours, and I don't sleep well that night.

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by ericb on Saturday May 31, 2008 @09:56AM (#205251)
If the 10 hour half-life were true, we'd all be Cornholio by now. A 10 hour half life means at 30 hours, you'd still have 12.5% of the caffeine in your system and at 40 hours you'd have 6.25%. I'd have coffee in me from the last week still in effect. Is there some other half life term I'm not familiar with?

In this regard, I'd go with wikipedia. There are plenty of doctors who are wrong in the world--they are only human.

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by gojomo on Saturday May 31, 2008 @11:39AM (#205275)
"Half-life" by biological elimination is not precisely exponential as with radioactive decay, and may trend closer to a linear process -- as in, your liver can eliminate X units per hour, not X% of however much you've had.

Thus the (informal) "half life" of one cup of coffee could be 4 hours, but two cups could be 8 hours, and so on.

(To the extent I can track the estimates of "3.5 to 6" or "5.7" hours of caffeine half-life back to original sources, it looks like the studies were done in 1978 and 1980. Maybe modern caffeine consumption has moved to a level where linear rather than exponential elimination dominates?)

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by icky on Sunday June 01, 2008 @04:45AM (#205768)
> "Half-life" by biological elimination is not precisely exponential as with radioactive decay, and may trend closer to a linear process -- as in, your liver can eliminate X units per hour, not X% of however much you've had.

Damn. I was hoping to calculate the optimal hour for a caffeine "booster" after the initial morning fix.

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by DenisM on Saturday May 31, 2008 @11:35AM (#205273)
And what makes you think you don't have 6.25% after 40 hours? When I stop consuming caffeine it takes couple of days for the effect to wear off. Did it twice so far - I'm ususally off caffeine but let it slide during vacations.
Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by mynameishere on Saturday May 31, 2008 @11:26AM (#205269)
I can't believe anyone would take a "sleep specialist" seriously in the first place. What's the education path to that profession?

Looks like about 5 hours:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=caffeine+half+life+...

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by iamelgringo on Monday June 02, 2008 @11:16AM (#206789)
Sleep Medicine is actually a sub-specialty of Pulmonary Medicine. So, to become a Pulmonologist/Sleep specialist, you need to have 4 years Pre-Med, 4 years Med school, 3-4 years of Internal Medicine Residency. After that, you have to apply to become a Pulmonologist, which is rather competitive. Regardless, it's a two year fellowship in pulmonary medicine, which means that you're the defacto king of the ICU for 2 years. Sometimes, pulmonologists take an extra one year to study sleep medicine.

So, on average, your sleep specialists have about 13-15 years of schooling. It's about the same ammount of time that it would take to become a Plastic surgeon, or Interventional Cardiologist, Cardiothoracic Surgeon of Invasive Radiologist.

It's not a light weight course of study. Certainly not 4 hours worth.

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by LogicHoleFlaw on Saturday May 31, 2008 @04:36PM (#205407)
In my case the specialists I saw were at the Sleep Medicine and Research Center in St. Louis, MO. The presiding doctors there are James K. Walsh, Ph.D., and Gihan Kader, M.D.

Dr. Walsh in particular is a professor at the nearby St. Louis University. If you do a search on Medline for Dr. Walsh you will see that he is active and published with studies on sleep disorders.

http://www.stlukes-stl.com/services/sleep_medicine/research_...

Re:Ask HN: how did you fix problems with bad sleep? by mynameishere on Saturday May 31, 2008 @08:49PM (#205534)
Great. So how do you explain the fact that these wonderful specialists got the half-life of caffeine so completely wrong?