News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by Bud on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:03AM (#20522956)
False. The US is able. Just not willing.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by sametmax on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:40AM (#20523166)
The US medias overhyped the country for so long now that I think you really believe you could make it a guaranteed win.

I don't think you can:

- China has the nuclear weapon, a space program, allies and no ethics or politics to slow them down.

- nobody won the cold war, and Russia was way less economically viable than China

- China has 1.3 billions people it is willing to sacrifice while the US has 4 time less, half of it being obese, plus they must censor the pics of coffins coming back from war because dying americans is not acceptable.

- China host all the factories, and provide a huge chunks of primary resources to the US.

- China is capable of being self-sufficient rapidly, as they have the land and the capabilities of going back to manual labor.

- China army has millenias of terrifying history. It may very well be still here in 10000 years. The US has 500 years of history, total.

- The US never entered a war that would affect their borders. Up till then, they brought the fire far from home, giving a false sense of indestructibility to their population. China is your neighbor.

- Attacking China means WWIII, it's not sure humanity can even survive it.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by PKop on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:10AM (#20522989)
What would they be able to do? They couldn't even oust Assad in Syria, and many many fewer casualties in the middle east became untenable politically. Spell out the details of what you think is possible to accomplish here?
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by rtpg on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:17AM (#20523036)
Not military, but the US could impose targeted sanctions to Chinese actors just like they have regarding Russian behavior.

It's not a guaranteed success but it would be sending a very strong signal. Better than nothing, perhaps

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by PKop on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:20AM (#20523054)
They're in the middle of a trade war, which it seems both sides are looking to de-escalate. I don't think US wants to pressure on other matters, nor do I think it is in the interests of American citizens to do so.

China could just as easily see as act of war or at very least, threatening their sovereignty. Maybe they sell their treasuries or restrict rare earths, or simply cut off supplies amongst their $400 Billion goods surplus with the US. I really don't think they'll allow themselves to be pushed around on this, out of general principle.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by sametmax on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:41AM (#20523172)
It didn't even make the Russians blip.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by flyinglizard on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:26AM (#20523091)
Hong Kong is not Taiwan. It’s a part of China and pretty much indefensible geographically. Defending it from military forces coming from the mainland is foolish.

US should strengthen its support of Taiwan in retaliation.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by peteretep on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:10AM (#20522987)
Go on, how would the US intervene militarily here? This isn't Island Fortress Taiwan, where there's already a base and a sizeable strait between it and the mainland.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by JumpCrisscross on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:22AM (#20523062)
> how would the US intervene militarily here?

Park a carrier strike group offshore, guarantee safe passage and refugee status to any Hong Kong resident wanting it, and provide transport to a host country.

It would take tremendous political will and resources. But this would be the non-violent, humanitarian and decisive way to intervene.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by sametmax on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:42AM (#20523175)
China would respond with putting a navy embargo on their territorial waters, blocking it. Now what ?
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by pas on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:12AM (#20524115)
Airlift the people out. After all HK has the right to conduct its own foreign policy.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by sametmax on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:18AM (#20524147)
The Chinese army will just block the few places where you can land with infantry.

At which point do you think the first bullet of the war fires ?

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by pas on Thursday July 25, 2019 @07:53AM (#20524593)
If they occupy the city and don't allow people to leave, that certainly will create problems for them (more and more reeducation camps).

Sure, it's not like anyone can or willing to do much about that, but the UK can play the Russian game (with some help from NATO), and provide help for the BN(O) people.

Shooting would be almost inevitable, but that at least establishes that there is a problem.

And why would Xi risk WW3, he and China has the most to lose, after all the future, with the current trajectory of the world looks to be theirs!

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by chvid on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:43AM (#20523179)
What makes you think US is not already intervening?

People assume that an intervention would be ships and helicopters showing up with people dancing in the streets like in some sort of movie.

Regime change does not look like that.

It looks Venezuela, Libya, Iran ...

And starts with a long information campaign.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 25, 2019 @03:51AM (#20523480)
> It looks Venezuela, Libya, Iran ...

Given these examples, Hong Kong would be much better off without such intervention.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by hker on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:37PM (#20530027)
(Based on another of my comment)

I don’t think Venezuela, Libya, or Iran is a fair comparison to Hong Kong regarding the progress or prospect of liberation/democratization. For one, Hong Kongers have been used to elections for almost 30 years now (since 1991), have practiced free press and rule of law, and mostly free of corruption, so I think Taiwan may be a closer comparison in terms of how liberation/democratization of Hong Kong would become.

The recent frustration towards elections in Hong Kong (which is also one root cause of the on-going protests) is that the elections are far from representative or universal suffrage (half of the seats in the Legislative Council–the functional constituencies–have pretty limited representation, while the Chief Executive is elected by a pro-Beijing committee of 1200 out of a population of 7M+), and that some elected members of the Legislative Council who are pro-Hong Kong got outright disqualified. A liberation/democratization of Hong Kong means such issues are fixed, which is more like Taiwan than Venezuela, Libya, or Iran.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:24PM (#20530404)
I'm not saying the protests in Hong Kong are similar to events that happened in the countries I mentioned. The context here is a proposed US intervention, whether over or covert, and I'm saying that in the last few decades all such US interventions ended up very badly for people living in those countries.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by chvid on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:46AM (#20523721)
Certainly in the short run ...
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 25, 2019 @04:58AM (#20523781)
Short run, mid run, and long run. Iraq and Libya are broken states right now because the US intervened overtly. That covers short and mid run. Iran is making problems today and receiving international flak only because the US intervened covertly and fucked up. That covers the long term.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by Grue3 on Thursday July 25, 2019 @05:28AM (#20523910)
>Iraq and Libya are broken states right now because the US intervened overtly.

That's like saying Germany was a broken state after US intervened in WW2. I mean, it was literally broken up, but it didn't have an insane dictator committing mass scale human rights abuses anymore.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:27PM (#20530424)
It isn't. WW2 was a world war, and Germany was hell-bent on world domination and genocide. The US and its allies being under direct threat is a different situation than preemptively destroying nations to further US political goals.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by pas on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:26AM (#20524180)
Facts are good. They help to anchor people to the unfortunate reality of how hard it is to help a country (or just anyone in general).

However, the simple fact that the US went in guns blazing and left before things got better (because otherwise it would have been too costly) doesn't invalidate all forms of intervention ever and forever.

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by TeMPOraL on Thursday July 25, 2019 @06:33PM (#20530474)
The US example doesn't invalidate all forms of intervention, but it does call into question any proposal of US intervention, which is the context here.
Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by pas on Friday July 26, 2019 @03:38AM (#20533054)
I read someone mentioning India, others the UK, etc. Not that any makes much sense.

It's no wonder such sensitive situations were mishandled. The theoretical magical chain of events that lead to sustained "freedom" was always there, on paper at least, but using the US examples we should conclude that its cost-benefit is waaay way lower than necessary to consider it a useful foreign policy tool.

Of course, an avid idealist might argue that this just means the US (or the world, or the West) just needs more experience to be able to better export "freedom"; and of course it is something we should never stop trying. And even today, even after the whole ISIL/ISIS campaign every place is better off now than it was before. (No Saddam, no Gaddafi, etc.)

Re:Beijing says military could intervene in Hong Kong by tanilama on Thursday July 25, 2019 @02:19AM (#20523043)
Unless US wants WWIII.