Where does personal responsibility come in?

It's ludicrously easy to determine what payments will be, how much interest you'll pay, or what a narrow range of market price is for the vehicles you're considering.

It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance.

> It's hard to imagine dropping tens of thousands of dollars without doing the slightest bit of common sense research as anything other than willful ignorance.

Totally.

But most people don't do that. Instead, they walk into the door and listen to the "expert" selling the car who is doing everything in their power to rip you off or give you a false sense of what you're really paying for that $25,000+ listed item.

It's insane to me that it's even legal. It's even worse than phone companies advertising something is $X per month but then there's 100 line items added in at the last second. Hotels do the same thing. It's no surprise so many people are in debt. So many companies (including medical facilities) do everything in their power to trick you or lie to you in order to make a sale.

Too many people are buying cars using financial products they don't understand: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381

When I'm trying to contain my costs, I ask how much something costs if I pay 100% in cash right now. If they can't give me a number, I generally won't make the purchase. When they that I'm ready to walk away, they usually find a way to give me a number.

There’s basically 2 types of dealerships. One that sells at rock bottom prices, advertises low prices online no one fully qualifies for, and rarely negotiates much. They focus on what the maximum amount of month you can spend and nothing else. They are the ones selling big trucks and big engines for sky high rates, but not always. Sounds like this is the place you went.

The second type of dealer doesn’t have tons of deals advertised and is usually priced on par with the places around them. They are much more focused on providing a nice sales experience and service. They usually have big lots and repeat customers. Baby boomers love them. You can haggle but they won’t hit rock bottom prices unless you pit two dealers against each other. All numbers are given to you and it doesn’t have the monthly cost tables.

This was a pretty big Ford dealership for reference. The sales guy was laser focused on the max amount being paid per month. Every question was around that and most non-monthly payment questions were diverted unless it was directly related to the listed price.

You can find list prices and option prices on the manufacturer website. Then google for what discounts people are getting off msrp, as well as interest rates. Then tell the salesperson you know what if costs, and you’ll buy it if they give you that price. If they don’t, walk and use a lower hassle service like Cartelligent.

I think the point is that if avoiding, or outsmarting the main sales channel is required, then it probably explains why all the old, sick, busy, distracted people are struggling financially, as this is only one industry out to con them.

Yes. These types of things can require mistakes to be made, and then self education once identified to prevent the same mistake in the future. Which is a lot to ask of someone running a family and working two jobs...