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Re:A personal story about 10× development by jacquesm on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:12AM (#20477621)
Well, that depends. You haven't actually seen the product so the assumption that it sucked and needed cleaning up may be a faulty one. I've seen the 10x phenomenon first hand a couple of times and some of those people really are that much better that their 'quickly hacked out solution' still beats your 'carefully considered product of 12 individuals'. In fact some of these simply work better because they are the work of a single talented individual, no meetings, no distractions, no comms overhead or having to explain stuff. Design by committee is rarely better than design by a good craftsman or woman.
Re:A personal story about 10× development by mugsie on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:24AM (#20477678)
The parent literally said it was a "shitty solution".

I agree design by committee can produce awful results - and I said nothing about a single person doing a design as being an issue.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by koheripbal on Friday July 19, 2019 @12:17PM (#20479893)
People overestimate the duration that their software will be used, so in many cases imperfections aren't as important as a developer might think they are.

My last project I released still had about 20 TODOs in the code. I launched it, it got great reviews, everyone loved it, then I got a new project and they deprioritized the "cleanup" phase. I suspect the edge-cases are just getting handled manually - no one cares and I'm still a hero.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by tempguy9999 on Friday July 19, 2019 @02:25PM (#20481194)
> People overestimate the duration that their software will be used

Please justify that.

I did some software, a not too complex chunk of work for a midlands (UK) retailer in 1999. It dealt with a couple of million pounds of retail orders that year. Not so big but not trivial either. It was still in use in 2015, and quite possibly is today (although the boss told me they re-used it for a rather different purpose by their sales reps).

It was very reliable because I fought to keep it simple, and tested it brutally (eg. the core part took 5 days to write but got 3 weeks testing, founding only 2 errors, but it was 2 errors fewer).

If it was crap it would have been junked so I'll claim that the end quality contributes to its life.

High reliability tends to stick around. I think lex/yacc started in the 70s and is still around today in the form of its spiritual successors flex/bison. Ancient but still grinding along.

' In a 2008 interview, Johnson reflected that "the contribution Yacc made to the spread of Unix and C is what I'm proudest of" ' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yacc)

If you ship crap its lifetime is intrinsically much shortened. That's my thesis anyway.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by mugsie on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:03PM (#20480447)
> You may look good, but the team / dept / company is worse off, and someone else has to clean up.

The people/team handling it manually probably care

Re:A personal story about 10× development by eitland on Friday July 19, 2019 @01:44PM (#20480838)
Here’s a problem:

The alternative to shipping something that works good enough, on time often isn’t to ship something perfect on time but to not ship on time or even worse, -at all.

That would be even worse for the people/team supposed to use the product.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by fogetti on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:34AM (#20477722)
So tell us, how is a shitty solution better than a well designed testable solution? Literally every book on project management is about the development cost vs maintenance cost and how the latter beats the former. But yeah, keep dreaming.
Re:A personal story about 10× development by mbesto on Friday July 19, 2019 @11:43AM (#20479553)
> Literally every book on project management

The real world is much sloppier than any book will ever tell you.

> is about the development cost vs maintenance cost

Absolutely true.

> how the latter beats the former

If you're believing that equivocally ((I don't think you personally are btw) then I don't think you're reading the advice the book is giving you correctly.

A shitty technical solution that gets to market quicker often (not always) can make the company more money in the long run. There is no "one right answer" here, it's all about judgement. 100+ tech DD's and counting...I've seen the whole spectrum. I've seen a $40M revenue (38% EBITDA) tech company built using a FileMaker-like tech stack (all WYSIWYG). And yes, I'm serious.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by TheOtherHobbes on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:53AM (#20477840)
The key word here is "solution." If your code is supposed to do a job, and for whatever reason it's not doing that job, then you do not have a solution.

Code that doesn't do the job is worthless, no matter how testable and well-designed it is.

Of course you can debate whether this is a management (scheduling, resource, PM) problem or a developer (competence, architecture, tool choice) problem - most likely some of both.

But whoever is responsible, it's still a non-solution.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by supermatt on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:41AM (#20477767)
Because what a "10x developer" (i would just call them pragmatic, personally) might call a shitty solution is still better than what you may call a well designed testable solution?

Not everything needs 90% test coverage and more comments than code to be good. And not everything with 90% test coverage and more comments than code is any good at all.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by mugsie on Friday July 19, 2019 @08:42AM (#20478121)
Not at all. The quality of the code may be terrible.

BUT - when someone else new comes along to look at it, the 90% code coverage, and comments helps them immensely - they can get up to speed to fix whatever bug has appeared a lot quicker.

Re:A personal story about 10× development by mamon on Friday July 19, 2019 @07:52AM (#20477836)
This is so true, because people that are really good at something usually hold themselves to incredibly high standards (which is one of the main reasons they become master craftsmen in the first place).
Re:A personal story about 10× development by fogetti on Friday July 19, 2019 @11:31AM (#20479446)
Yes. The standard is so high that they can't even find words for it. So they just call it simply shitty.
Re:A personal story about 10× development by fogetti on Friday July 19, 2019 @11:29AM (#20479416)
Pragmatism based on shittyism? Or how shall we imagine this? Is there a motto for this? "We excel in shitty code or something?"
Re:A personal story about 10× development by supermatt on Monday July 22, 2019 @08:08AM (#20497185)
I think you are missing the point. That someone calls their own solution "shitty" doesn't mean that it's shitty by your standards, its shitty by theirs. The reality is that people have different standards. I don't understand the hate you seem to be exuding for productive people.
Re:A personal story about 10× development by falcor84 on Saturday July 20, 2019 @12:31PM (#20486708)
I think it's just another variant of Less is More