News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by mromanuk on Monday July 08, 2019 @08:47PM (#20388061)
Call me pessimist, but cartelized private global corporations owning and “printing” money can only bring bad things. It is centralized and is controlled by an elite.
Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by whatshisface on Monday July 08, 2019 @08:55PM (#20388112)
The Fed isn't? It has more private board members than appointed board members, and some have argued that it has consistently prioritized the interests of the banks at the expense of encouraging leverage like cash is going out of style. This is closer to a battle between west coast elites and east coast elites than it is about the people versus the elites.
Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by sidlls on Monday July 08, 2019 @09:03PM (#20388147)
Well, The Fed is a bit different. It's not exactly a private corporation that is not beholden to the voting public.

More importantly, though, is your note about who this battle is between: it's a battle between groups of people who should both be viewed very skeptically when it comes to the interests of "the rest of us".

Corporate controlled money has been tried in the past; it didn't end well for workers.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by StudentStuff on Monday July 08, 2019 @09:45PM (#20388337)
Company scrip has a long and nebulous history, its great for tethering your workers to the company town (and company store) while keeping them indebted and unable to leave: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company_scrip
Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by dragonwriter on Monday July 08, 2019 @09:04PM (#20388150)
> It has more private board members than appointed board members

Only in the world where 0 > 7; there are 7 members of the Board of Governors, all Senate-confirmed Presidential appointees.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by snowwrestler on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:53PM (#20388893)
The Fed Board of Governors (the body that makes monetary policy) is an agency of the federal government. That means that yes, it is centralized, but it also means that it operates under a public, transparent, and democratically changeable legal structure. If Americans don't like the Fed, they can vote for a president and members of Congress who will change it.

Bitcoin has become centered on the few largest mining operations. Libra is centered on Facebook. Who elected them? How do currency holders influence them? There are no defined ways to do so.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by mbesto on Monday July 08, 2019 @09:38PM (#20388309)
Even if it isn't fully apparent, the people can vote out a president that controls the Fed. There is no such option to the "100 member companies". Also, the Fed is US only...so there's that.

The scary thing about Libra is that it truly has the potential for global-scale "boil the frog" ramifications.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by provolone on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:05PM (#20388681)
Individuals can simply choose to not use Libra or FB.

Contrast this to abstaining from voting. There will still be a president and a Federal Reserve Bank regardless.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by javert on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:05PM (#20388685)
> Even if it isn't fully apparent, the people can vote out a president that controls the Fed.

The president of the United States does not control the Fed, if that's what you're saying. The current U.S. president is extremely unhappy with the current Fed chairman and has repeatedly demanded that the Fed alter its policies, to no avail.

> Also, the Fed is US only...so there's that

The U.S. dollar is pretty global.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by mbesto on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:20PM (#20388746)
> The current U.S. president is extremely unhappy with the current Fed chairman and has repeatedly demanded that the Fed alter its policies, to no avail.

And yet he nominated him. What's your point? AFAIK he also technically has the power to fire him too.

> The U.S. dollar is pretty global.

Can you use the dollar to buy food at a foodstand in Germany? No. Just because certain aspects of the global economy are driven by the dollar, doesn't mean everything can be transacted with it. Libra is meant for companies to be able to transact business globally under one currency.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by pjc50 on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:42PM (#20388848)
> Can you use the dollar to buy food at a foodstand in Germany? No

Probably not, but in a tourist place you might succeed. And there's still plenty of places where the US dollar is more welcome than local currency. It's hard money, regardless of the politics of the Fed.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by javert on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @02:18AM (#20389397)
> What's your point?

You said that the U.S. president controls the Fed, and that is just objectively incorrect. My point is to correct that, so that you and anyone else reading will know better. I thought that was pretty clear.

> AFAIK he also technically has the power to fire him too.

No, he doesn't, so your knowledge doesn't go very far here.

And by the way, although the U.S. president nominates the Fed chair, he or she must be approved by the U.S. Senate. So the president can't pursue a specific monetary policy agenda via an appointee unless the Senate agrees.

> Can you use the dollar to buy food at a foodstand in Germany? No.

Sure, but the dollar is used for more international trade (e.g. oil) than any other currency, and is also a store of wealth probably more than any other currency.

For instance, many Germans hold dollars in the form of US Treasuries, because they actually pay a positive yield, unlike German government debt.

Anyway, if you are afraid of Libra, and I'm with you on that. The solution is decentralized currency like bitcoin, not fiat. The Fed is pursuing a long-term suicidal interest rate policy (too low) and the ECB is no better off. Plus, the U.S. government has started using dollar banking regulation as an international weapon (e.g. Iran sanctions), so there is a rising risk that eventually other countries will wise up and stop using the dollar, and that will destabilize it.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by unwrap on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @02:38AM (#20389487)
>Can you use the dollar to buy food at a foodstand in Germany

I don't know about Germany, but most places you can easily convert it to local currency right around the corner. Not many currencies can boast of something like that.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by javert on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:08PM (#20388699)
> The Fed isn't?

This kind of response derails the discussion. Yes, the Fed is centralized, too. That doesn't defeat the point you are responding to.

Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by chillacy on Monday July 08, 2019 @11:24PM (#20388764)
Banks used to print banknotes, and still do in some places. As long as those notes are backed by assets, what’s the problem?
Re:Libra, 2 Weeks In by lightgreen on Tuesday July 09, 2019 @12:25AM (#20389018)
They are not going to “print” money. Each libra dollar is backed by real dollar/euro/jpy.