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Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by asdfman123 on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:43PM (#20265476)
As an outsider, at this point I have no idea why anyone would want to do a startup in SF. I mean, obviously, all the connections and resources are nice, but you are literally burning investor money on $5k/mo rent. That's absurd.

Rent out a house in Austin, Texas for $2k and each of your co-founders can share a room. There's investors and as deep a talent pool as you'll ever need unless you're GoogleAmazon and you need a constant stream of talent to feed your machine.

Heck, I live in Houston. I'm working on a startup idea in .NET Core and Vue. If it ever takes off, it will be extremely easy to find 5-10 .NET developers. Hell, if I ever need another really good senior developer I can poach them for $140k, which is a really good salary here. Aren't they paying juniors in SF that much now?

If I ever need to hire 500 developers and a few experienced distributing computing PhDs I'll be too busy rolling in cash to care. I'll just sell my company to someone else and be too busy sailing around the mediterranean to care about talent shortages in Houston.

For the record, I live in a 3 bedroom house right near downtown that costs less than a year's senior dev salary in SF. Are any of you SF people going to be able to get that, unless you become fantastically wealthy?

I'm not trying to be all sour grapes, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by inferiorhuman on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:50PM (#20265580)
I mean, obviously, all the connections and resources are nice

You pretty much answered your rhetorical question there.

Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by dgudkov on Monday June 24, 2019 @02:43PM (#20266940)
The main connections a startup needs is customers. The vast majority of customers live outside of the Bay area.
Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by whatever_dude on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:53PM (#20265599)
I assume it's a bit of inertia. Everybody wants to be there because everybody wants to be there, so the constant pool of individuals that didn't yet get the memo keep the wheels turning.

The bubble might already be deflating though.

Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by throwaway5752 on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:50PM (#20265574)
People in the Bay Area are just people anywhere and don't like burning 2 hours a day on the road commuting. You can hire them just as easily as remotes as necessary, given location appropriate salary.
Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by baby on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:47PM (#20265528)
Or rent a house in Chiang Mai?
Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by Cookingboy on Monday June 24, 2019 @01:08PM (#20265801)
>I'm not trying to be all sour grapes, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Please allow me to offer a different perspective.

Doing a startup, at least a serious startup (instead of a side project), is an extremely costly endeavor, doesn't matter who you are. By costly I don't mean the office rent or employee payroll, I mean the toll it takes on your time, your personal life, and most importantly the opportunity cost you pay by giving up a potentially lucrative career elsewhere.

In addition to being costly, doing a startup has a very high risk of failure. So combining both of those factors, if you decide to take the leap of faith to do a startup, wouldn't you try to do it in a way that absolutely maximizes chance of success? Considering all that risk and opportunity cost, higher rent and more expensive cost of living is such a marginal cost. With all due respect, I know what kind of house you can buy for about $300k in Houston, and if keeping that standard of living is more important to you than maximizing the chance of success for your high risk startup, then I sincerely wonder if doing a startup is the right thing for you considering how low your risk tolerance is.

Now why do I think Silicon Valley offers a higher chance of success? Books can be written about this topic so I won't get into too much details. The talent pool is one issue (and no, even though I don't doubt there will be a lot of .NET devs in Houston, I think you will realize it's one thing to find good .NET devs, but another to convince them to work for you), the other one is the entire supporting ecosystem. I'm talking about cofounders, investors, people to bounce ideas off, people who show you where the doors are, and most importantly there is a culture of not punish failure that does wonders for encouraging taking risks and innovate.

Is SV a circle jerk? Oh absolutely. But it doesn't mean you can't get tremendous value out of it.

A counter example is when I tried to do a software startup in Austin. To be honest, the level of ecosystem in Austin is completely bush league when compared to SV. I think one of the biggest VC firms in town back then had an unofficial policy of "not invest in first time founders", and most of their investments are series B/C rounds following bigger SV VC firms. That is how risk-averse the scene is. I moved to Silicon Valley soon after that and I never looked back.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty, plenty of reasons to do a startup else where. For example, if you are doing a startup that writes software for the oil/energy companies, then Houston would be a fantastic place! If you are doing a startup that promotes live music, then Austin would make sense too. I just don't think personal cost of living is worth much consideration in most cases.

Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by breck on Monday June 24, 2019 @01:30PM (#20266070)
This is a great answer.

The cost of living difference is minor in the big picture, if you are going to raise money. If you don't want to raise money, and want to build a whole company over 15 years instead of 3, then the location is less important.

Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by dfundako on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:48PM (#20265543)
Are people literally burning investor money?
Re:We moved to Turkey from San Francisco to continue working... by nradov on Monday June 24, 2019 @01:46PM (#20266255)
Noted venture capitalist Peter Thiel agrees that Silicon Valley / Bay Area is no longer the best location for startups due to high real estate costs.

https://www.sfgate.com/expensive-san-francisco/article/peter...