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Re:Civic honesty around the globe by sonnyblarney on Thursday June 20, 2019 @04:29PM (#20237017)
I don't know why people are so cynical, the results are generally what I would have imagined.

Most interesting - the $13/$100 difference.

Notice that in the US and UK, the 'return rate' goes way up when there's $100 in the wallet, but when only $13 it's quite low.

In Switzerland and Sweden, it's high even for $13.

I think there might be a difference between 'core conscientiousness' and 'meaningful conscientiousness'.

In Sweden and Switzerland, it's a matter of propriety to 'return the wallet'. It's appropriate behaviour. They have smaller, tighter communities, you may even know the person. So they 'just do the right thing' because it doesn't matter what's in the wallet.

In the US/UK culture the thinking might be $13 - nobody is care, it's not worth the hassle to report. But as soon as there's money, then it becomes a material matter of conscientiousness, i.e. 'people will miss $100, it's worth the effort to report it'.

I think $13 is just not really enough money, not that much different from $0. It's almost change.

$100 is a nice, meaningful threshold.

Finally, China ... ouch.

Also, the results are perfectly correlated with transparency international index [1]

It's interesting because it may be that 'corruption' is not just a systematic issue in governance, but it may be correlated or predicted with even more basic levels of civic conscientiousness, as measured by tests such as this.

[1] https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by bbs787 on Thursday June 20, 2019 @05:39PM (#20237659)
I think the contents of the wallet are too much like junk without the money. Some business cards, a grocery list and a key in a transparent wallet. To me that's almost as junk as finding some fliers and I might think somebody has just thrown it away as litter and $13 is like lunch money. So it has to has $100 so I think "they might want this".

If it was a regular wallet full of useful cards, perhaps some sentimental things like photos etc. then I'd want to get it back to them regardless of whether it contained some cash. I think this experiment might work better with a backpack or a mobile phone.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by woah on Thursday June 20, 2019 @08:07PM (#20238722)
The description of the wallet does make it sound like garbage. They probably should have used a higher quality (if well-worn) wallet in the prevailing local style. Lots of issues with this study design in general.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by kalleboo on Friday June 21, 2019 @12:46AM (#20239943)
Doesn't that just make the results even more interesting? 60+% of "garbage" got returned in Sweden! Why would people return garbage?
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by sonnyblarney on Thursday June 20, 2019 @07:50PM (#20238631)
That's a great point.

A grocery list and a business card is hardly 'a wallet'.

Even with $13 ... that's still 'a wallet with some lose change'.

Without credit cards, id, or some some real money, i.e. 'meaningful to the person who lost it', it's an odd measure.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by Eeeeeelein on Monday June 24, 2019 @12:10PM (#20265038)
Thank you for the comment. But the thing is... the researchers have obviously negelected that fact that there are countries where email is NOT that commonly used or the way they think it's used. It's not about being cynical; it's about being objective actually.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by takamh on Thursday June 20, 2019 @04:43PM (#20237145)
I wonder if the fact that physical wallets as a construct are undeniably western affect the study in any way. For example, do people even use wallets in China? They've long since focused on electronic payments as opposed to cash. There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by yibg on Friday June 21, 2019 @12:43AM (#20239929)
I don't have any data to back this up, just knowledge about Chinese society. My view is the main driver for the low score for China is the society norm of minding your own business and not getting involved. So it might not be a measure of honesty but rather a measure of being passive. For example, I would assume if instead of having to contact the person, the person just walked over to retrieve the wallet, they'd likely get it back.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by sonnyblarney on Thursday June 20, 2019 @05:00PM (#20237321)
The Chinese invented paper money :) so it's not as though the concept is foreign to any of them. While there might be some differences between cultures in that regard, I think it's kind of a stretch to try to explain away the not very nice data points. I think the data can probably be interpreted in a straight forward manner: if you lose something in China, you're not going to get it back and that's that. It is what it is.

"There's a reason the authors stopped short of making any social commentary in their study." I think because it would be way out of bounds. Casual commenters such as us have a little space to speculate (unless dang gets fussy), but it'd be too improper for researchers to make assumptions.

One major thing missing in this study is the rural/urban divide. I suggest London is not representative in any way of the rest of the UK, and neither is Manchester the same as Penzance.

Edit: I should note that the authors do indeed go into trying to find cultural correlates, they go right for '% protestant' etc. and make some fairly speculative comments which I would be uncomfortable with because these are all just correlations. Notably, one of the highest 'correlations' is 'latitude' (!), it's not as though being at a certain latitude makes one more civic. Maybe there are other, related, factors, but it's certainly not latitude.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by Sjuliaaaaa on Monday June 24, 2019 @05:13AM (#20261708)
Almost agree all except if you lose sthing in China, YOU are going to search for it. One of the social norms is to leave it there, don't pick it up if it's on the floor, so that when people come back it stays where it used to be. Plus passive waiting is the common practice: not your job to find the owner. The silly one who lose the wallet does their own job.

this makes it more difficult to get it back than in some of the top rated countries. Do hope to change. But this is not really about civic honesty.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by paopaokade on Monday June 24, 2019 @02:26AM (#20260979)
The authors admitted above that they excluded Japan because of cultural differences (otherwise Japan would have been at the bottom). All other countries/regions most culturally similar to China, including South Korea, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore, are not included possibly because of cultural differences. Yet the result from China is totally to be trusted. Bravo.

I was raised in China and certainly got many of my lost things back growing up. Just because many Chinese folks prefer not to contact the owners directly does not mean they do not use other ways to return lost items :)

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by takamh on Thursday June 20, 2019 @05:13PM (#20237446)
You missed my point and I don't think it's a stretch, especially if you don't understand their culture. A better analogy would be if you would return a sack of $100 in nickels, I think most people would leave it. I'm not too familiar myself but if the entire country has moved on to mobile payments, people would be less inclined to return obsolete forms of money. Perhaps someone more familiar can explain better.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by sonnyblarney on Thursday June 20, 2019 @05:24PM (#20237538)
I didn't miss your point, I disagree with it.

I believe people in China understand very well what paper money is and means, in roughly/ballpark the same terms as Americans.

I could be wrong.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by tindrum on Tuesday June 25, 2019 @01:49AM (#20271500)
Obviously you missed his points. People in China nowdays care little about paper money, especially small money.
Re:Civic honesty around the globe by pests on Thursday June 20, 2019 @09:48PM (#20239182)
No one is questioning that China understands paper money.

The question is do they store this paper money is wallets? Or is it carried in a pocket? Or do they have full sized binders the money is put in? Or fanny packs? Do they even carry cash anymore?

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by sonnyblarney on Friday June 21, 2019 @04:42AM (#20240903)
They use wallets, paper money just like the rest of us. Though there's a recent phenom of 'cashless', cash is still normative, moreover, this is a very recent thing.

A 'wallet' in China is the the same thing as a 'wallet' in the USA or Sweden.

Re:Civic honesty around the globe by pests on Saturday June 22, 2019 @07:20PM (#20252271)
I know that. Or at least assumed that. I just wanted to clarify what my GP was asking as I felt people were taking it too literal.

Like how women in the US carry purses. I've never been to another country. Do all cultures use purses? If they do is it both genders or only one? I don't know.