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Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by nanopticon on Thursday June 13, 2019 @02:33PM (#20177455)
Does anyone know why AI-based detection algorithms seem to have lagged behind AI-based production of images? Perhaps that's just where the money is, but you would think the DoD and other agencies would be at least equally interested in detection.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by currymj on Thursday June 13, 2019 @03:53PM (#20178054)
Could just be that this is often done using GANs? So if you come up with some better way of telling apart real from fake, it can immediately be used as part of the discriminator, resulting in (hopefully) even better fake images.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by david-gpu on Thursday June 13, 2019 @04:13PM (#20178181)
> So if you come up with some better way of telling apart real from fake, it can immediately be used as part of the discriminator

The generator can only learn from the discriminator if the discriminator is differentiable and has reasonably consistent gradients.

Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by bitL on Thursday June 13, 2019 @05:47PM (#20178865)
You can use relaxation for discrete variables (e.g. by using convex simplex), replacing them with differentiable variables, and then just discretize after the very end of the computation. A common trick for variational autoencoders that are another way to do generative models.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by currymj on Thursday June 13, 2019 @05:45PM (#20178861)
I sort of naively assumed that any binary classification task on images nowadays would be done with a deep NN.

Are there any proposed techniques for detecting fakes that can't be easily differentiated through?

Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by Topolomancer on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:36PM (#20179214)
To my understanding, the idea is to stop training as soon as the discriminator has been 'fooled', i.e. its performance for telling fake and real images apart is just like random guessing. So, in a sense, you always keep on making better fake images, but not necessarily better discriminators (unless you botch the training or the losses, obviously).
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by Topolomancer on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:38PM (#20179230)
Another reason (next to the ones about GANs etc. that have already been mentioned) is also that it's easier to fool detection systems by just making up more data---there's a heavy imbalance going on here, and that does not even account for issues with real images, such as artefacts, or damage, and so on.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by anigbrowl on Thursday June 13, 2019 @04:07PM (#20178157)
There's more money in fakery than truthery.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by buboard on Thursday June 13, 2019 @06:35PM (#20179205)
GANs are detectors too, so at any point in time they will be right-on-par with the state of the art fakes, but no better.
Re:Experts: Spy used AI-generated face to connect with targets by xodast on Thursday June 13, 2019 @03:06PM (#20177719)
One thing that comes to mind is the significant cost asymmetry of a false result or error.