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Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:35AM (#20164400)
This is about Windows desktop development. I need admin rights to install sql server, I need them to customize my machine so it’s similar to our target environment. I need to change user permissions all the time yo see how things behave under different conditions . There is a ton more I could walk you through and have done multiple times. Comments like yours come repeatedly from people who don’t know about the work we do. I have offered them to demonstrate doing our job without admin rights but so far nobody has even tried. They just keep sending the same email about not needing admin rights which has repeatedly been showed to not work.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by cmdkeen on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:46AM (#20165855)
Being punchy about it you've never moved on from thinking you need admin rights on your machine. Chocolatey for Business' self-service installer, SCCM jobs, and a variety of other tools exist to enable you to get specific things that require elevation executed. If you're changing things to test various configurations wouldn't it be handy to have those scripted, get them peer reviewed / linted and you've got yourself the start of a process to get that script executed on demand.

This stuff isn't that hard - but those of us doing it see the mad things that people do when they're given blanket, even time bound, admin access. They're the ones dealing with the support calls when then every SQL Server installation has been done differently with no details of what specifically was done. IaC works.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by novok on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @06:44PM (#20170113)
Then I hit another 'no-admin' roadblock, that requires a day or weeks of hostile IT bureaucracy and the IT department has just wasted another +$3000 of employee time. This behavior might drive them to quit, leading to a premature +$30k recruiting and on ramping cost to replace them.

Now iterate that over 1000s of other instances and you see the financial reason why devs need admin.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @12:45PM (#20166591)
Have you ever considered that some people are themselves writing tools like Chocolatey that inherently need elevated rights? I am working on a Windows service that needs to be elevated to work. In addition I need to change TPM keys and change registry settings in the machine hive. The SQL Server installation is local and IT will never be bothered with it. Just let me install it.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by new4thaccount on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:28PM (#20170401)
Wow. The same at my company. It doesn't matter that it has been successfully justified 10 times. The same email comes out quarterly.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by Shorel on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:14PM (#20168809)
You should be able to do all that inside a VM.

In fact, several VMs.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by esoterica on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:54AM (#20165953)
Sounds like you need a VM, not admin permissions.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by alkonaut on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:24PM (#20168912)
Out of curiosity, what's the benefit of me doing bad things in a VM, instead of on my own machine - assuming the VM has full access to the same networks and data as the physical machine?

Unless the VM is somehow sandboxed it's just another box on the same network. So the same reasons for me not being admin on the physical machine (e.g. to not be able to download and run untrusted software because it might spread something on the network) should apply to the VM?

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by user5994461 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:41PM (#20169077)
Of course the VM is isolated. That's exactly the point of a VM.

An account inside a VM will only let you play in that VM.

Whereas your account on the host is available and automatically granted access to all machines, fileshares and services on the active directory network. If it got admin rights, then you've got admin pretty much everywhere.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:57PM (#20169241)
“Whereas your account on the host is available and automatically granted access to all machines, fileshares and services on the active directory network. If it got admin rights, then you've got admin pretty much everywhere.”

Nonsense. You can have local admin rights that work only on one machine.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by user5994461 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @05:45PM (#20169662)
Nonsense, there are endless ways to escalate and pivot once you get local admin.

That being said, there are indeed restrictions that can and should be set on admin rights. Not that IT would know about it or that it would limit pivoting much.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by ClassyJacket on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:09PM (#20171278)
"Nonsense, there are endless ways to escalate and pivot once you get local admin."

Why not report your findings to Microsoft and get your bug bounty payout?

And if this is true, wouldn't they also just do that from inside the VM?

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by alkonaut on Thursday June 13, 2019 @02:45AM (#20172361)
> Of course the VM is isolated.

Let's assume for the sake of discussion that to do what I need to do I not only need to install the program that requires priveleges, I also need a few of my company network drives mapped, access to some company systems, internet access and so on.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by rb808 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:44AM (#20164516)
If you want a proper dev environment that matches your target you need a proper server to have sql server installed on. I'm pretty sure someone can install sql server on your workstation if you really need it. User permissioning is a dbo task. After that you just have to live with it like the rest of us.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:57AM (#20164655)
You sound exactly like every other IT guy who doesn’t understand what we are working on. We then explain everything to them and usually they disappear and are never heard of again. That is, until the next guy shows up a year later and the cycle repeats.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by bena on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:42AM (#20165134)
It's like they don't realize that it's all software. Software that needs to do administrative tasks needs administrative permissions on the machine.

I really don't see how you can develop such software without having at least the ability to easily gain administrative permission on the machine.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by tropo on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @06:07PM (#20169842)
It's not crazy to give you another PC or two.

Corporate IT can admin the box for corporate training PowerPoint gunk. You get another box to run what you have written, and maybe another to run the development environment. Those don't go on IT's network. You can run a private LAN around the office, not connected to the outside world, in which you break things as you please.

This solution is even good enough for people who are intentionally dealing with malware.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by rb808 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @02:43PM (#20167908)
I was a dev in the 90s and the start of the 2000s and always had admin rights. I dont need it any more. If you really had an edge case that requires admin rights I'm surprised. If you really need SQL server on your workstation you should think about using a different database. If your company says you have to use SQL server and you have to have it on your workstation and you need to reinstall it regularly and you're obviously screwed you go up the management chain with your unsolvable problem that breaks their policy. Is very unusual now - most people just moan they want admin rights when they can live perfectly fine without it.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @03:19PM (#20168274)
It will be really hard to argue for a complete redesign of a medical device app, complete retesting and waiting for FDA approval only because some guy at IT doesn’t like the devs to have admin.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by kelnos on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @05:28PM (#20169508)
You're basically saying, "I don't need admin rights anymore and can't think of reasons why anyone else would, so clearly you're wrong, don't know anything about your work, and don't need admin rights either".

A dose of humility might be in order.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by oxfordmale on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:14PM (#20168807)
Try running Visual Studio without admin rights and you will weep. Regarding other rights, I tried to onboard a new Dev without admin rights, however, after the 25th IT ticket (that take days to get done), I gave up.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by voltagex_ on Thursday June 13, 2019 @12:21AM (#20171780)
I run Visual Studio without admin rights every day. But, if you're doing driver development, working with older IIS, certain parts of the registry or developing installers then yeah you're going to have a bad time.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by maxxxxx on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:58PM (#20169251)
Or try LabView. It’s not doable.
Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by user5994461 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:54PM (#20169220)
Visual Studio does not require admin rights to run at all. It stopped needing that almost ten years ago.

The only exceptions are some parts of the C++ debugger and the driver development kit.

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by robgough on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:46PM (#20170513)
or anything to do with Service Fabric.

I'm not sure if your "almost ten years ago" is meant to be hyperbolic, or genuine... I can't even remember why, but I know the project I was on 6 years ago definitely needed visual studio to have admin access, and it was all standard C# app stuff (maybe WPF?)

Re:When Employees Use Software That IT Hasn’t Approved by Mountain_Skies on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @01:24PM (#20167053)
Are you prepared to supply the appropriate servers out of your budget and provide resources for managing the server while guaranteeing acceptable uptime?