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Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by lamchob on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @03:53AM (#20162593)
Does this mean, that the use of anabolic steroids to build muscle at one point in time can lead to better performance years after usage? For example, a young athlete uses it in his late teens/early twenties to gain muscle and then lays off the drug for a while. Then he returns to competitive sports, reaping the benefits of the formerly enhanced hypertrophy without any means to test against it?
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by rapsey on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:44AM (#20162833)
Or if the athlete was once male...
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Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by rapsey on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @06:00AM (#20163128)
Not particularly educational and extremely one sided. The main source of information is by a gender identity doctor.

One particular excerpt:

> The connection between naturally occurring testosterone and athletic performance appears to be overstated. When researchers measured the T levels of elite athletes from 15 Olympic sports, more than 25 per cent of the men were below 10 nmol/L

Yeah because training reduces testosterone.

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by lawlessone on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:50AM (#20165221)
why was my comment flagged but your bigotry ins't?
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by rapsey on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @11:19AM (#20165489)
I did not even down vote your comment, yet mine has quite a few votes. So I’m guessing the hivemind disagrees with you.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by kace91 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @08:01AM (#20163646)
I've always wanted to try that, seeing as short term use of steroids seems to not have many harmful side effects - I'd probably have done it already if it weren't for my complete lack of knowledge about how to do it safely (where to buy, how to keep my health controlled, etc).
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by amelius on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @08:43AM (#20163934)
It sounds tempting, but then again, what would you tell your children? That if they want to become like you they have to take steroids too? Or hope for some epigenetic effect?
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by kace91 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @08:52AM (#20164002)
Who knows, if steroids are indeed a net positive for the body they might even have legal choices available by the time they're adults - the trend of reviewing currently banned substances seems to be taking pace with new attempts to use Psychedelic drugs to treat depression and weed for pain management.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by amelius on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:01AM (#20164081)
There is a difference though: steroids are produced by the human body, whereas most psychedelic drugs and weed are not.

If steroids would be a net positive for the body in general, then evolution would just follow the gradient and produce more of it.

> if steroids are indeed a net positive for the body they might even have legal choices available by the time they're adults

That's a huge "if ... might" there. Again, what are you telling your children? That gambling with your health is ok?

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by kace91 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:27AM (#20164308)
I don't think that's really a given: The product of our past evolution doesn't necessarily represent our current needs and interests. More muscle mass is costly to maintain, which could have been unwanted in food scarce environments; living long lives might be evolutionary irrelevant past reproduction age...

Think about teeth for an obvious example: The body is able to grow them, and some animals do it constantly - yet losing our adult teeth (due to aging, accidents or whatever else) does not cause us to grow new ones. It would be hard to dispute that growing a replacement tooth would be beneficial to a person in our current context and lifestyle, but evolution has not reached that conclusion.

Edit: Replying also to your second phrase (the message I'd be giving to my potential children) - I don't really see why, if current research points to minimal to no dangers for short term use (about as harmful as light alcohol consumption), I should be treating it as such a big deal. If anything, I think it would be a positive lesson that they should make adult choices for themselves by taking appropriate steps to be informed about the pros and cons of it.

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by amelius on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @10:06AM (#20164747)
Ok, fair points. But then again, by going the steroid route you and your kids would be excluded from participating in any sports matches (except perhaps bodybuilding contests). How would you feel about that, and about how others would view you in this regard?
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by whenchamenia on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:09AM (#20164145)
The body does indeed produce various psycedelics, albeait in very small quantity. The presence of thc and opoid receptors is no happy accident.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by erichocean on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @06:25AM (#20163216)
> Does this mean, that the use of anabolic steroids to build muscle at one point in time can lead to better performance years after usage?

Yes, and it's very well known too. You don't need to take steroids for very long to increase your muscle mass, then you go off them and stay off them for a few months and maintain it. You can then repeat multiple times if you need/want to. I've been told that it's fairly safe when done this way, with appropriate monitoring, etc.

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by oceanghost on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @05:24PM (#20169466)
You are correct, but there is more to it than that. At one time I was a serious lifter-- and I did half a dozen cycles. Even though I haven't worked out seriously in 3 or 4 years (illness, childcare, divorce) my body shape is permanently altered, as are my overall strength levels.

So, when I was entertaining trying to be a bodybuilder, I had two problem areas. Chest and arms. Also, I should mention that my trainer at the time was an IFBB judge, and has his pro card. I really, really dived into this.

My chest got big from gear and stayed that way, and I kept most of my strength, even when I don't work out.

The reason I can't be a bodybuilder is-- I can't get my biceps to grow, even on the most aggressive steroids they grow mildly and shrink back to crap the moment I'm not killing myself.

My point is, bodies are weird. They're an indignity frankly. Anecdotally, I have evidence your supposition is correct and incorrect. It's mostly down to genetics.

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by barry-cotter on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:33AM (#20163505)
You just described steroid cycling.

> cycling steroids involves alternating the active and in active use of steroids. This means that there would be times where a person would be using the drug as well as times where they would refrain from using them.

https://www.whatsteroids.com/steroids/what-is-a-steroid-cycl...

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by VoiceOfWisdom on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @03:59AM (#20162619)
Correct, it does. Bodybuilders have known this for years.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by ddorian43 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @04:21AM (#20162715)
Same in fighting.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by sgt101 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @05:41AM (#20163059)
And rugby.
Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by ummm32 on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:41PM (#20171159)
This is exactly how some guys in gyms used to consume anabolic steroids, I'm talking about the practice around the 90s, for them this was just a dark pattern in sports (heavy weight lifting). Some used to train several months a year consuming, then stopping, and after a while (could be months to a year or more), they'd be returning to competition.

the street theory, quite supported by old consumers and ex-competitors, was that, ok the "super-size" could be gone after some months, but the strenght increase would not. So you've got - and you'd be able - to train really hard in those months, consuming steroids, supplements, controlling diet, etc.

Re:Human Skeletal Muscle Possesses an Epigenetic Memory of H... by _pmf_ on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @07:16AM (#20163418)
Definitely.