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Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by sage_joch on Thursday December 16, 2010 @10:49PM (#2015082)
"... prisoners in Georgia are forced to work without pay for their labor--seemingly a violation of the 13th Amendment, which prohibits slavery and involuntary servitude."

I hadn't thought about that before, but that's a very interesting point. The fact that such a high percentage of the prison population is black makes it hit home a little harder.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by anon11 on Thursday December 16, 2010 @10:50PM (#2015084)
"Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation."

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by fleitz on Thursday December 16, 2010 @11:05PM (#2015113)
There are many ways to interpret that statement. One interpretation would go towards that a judge may specify involuntary servitude (eg. community service) as punishment, and another would say that involuntary servitude is implied by the prison sentence.

I'm sure the prisoners take the former interpretation that involuntary servitude was not specified as punishment and thus is unconstitutional.

Also, the 13th amendment absolutely bans slavery, so if you can construe characteristics of ownership then you could make it unconstitutional. Georgia also has a history of abusing the law to keep slavery in all but name going which would negatively impact the states' case in a non-southern court, and would make a good case as to the intent of Georgian legislation being to revive slavery. I mean when they're trying to put the Confederate flag back on their flag it gives a person pause as to the intent of not paying their labor. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,85078,00.html

This is why most states pay their employees in prison a pittance rather than absolutely nothing. It avoids the issue entirely and makes it one of labor law.

Re-education through labor, not just for communists anymore!

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by ynniv on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:25AM (#2015313)
Re-education through labor, not just for communists anymore!

It is also for capitalists. Georgia has a number of privately operated, for profit prisons. (It does not appear that any of them were involved in this strike.)

[ http://www.dcor.state.ga.us/Divisions/Corrections/PrivatePri... ] [ http://www.thegeogroupinc.com/ ] [ http://www.correctionscorp.com/ ]

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by jberryman on Friday December 17, 2010 @12:47AM (#2015364)
Welcome to the Prison-Industrial Complex: it's like slavery but with more rape jokes!
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by salemh on Friday December 17, 2010 @01:26AM (#2015444)
While sarcastic, the state of the "Prison-Industrial" complex reads like a science fiction novel.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by rbanffy on Friday December 17, 2010 @07:46AM (#2016031)
You know sci-fi is frequently not about predicting the future, but preventing it.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by bugsy on Friday December 17, 2010 @04:46PM (#2017961)
I agree with your point. The "as" in the term "as a punishment" indicates that it is given explicitly as a punishment, and in lieu of a prison term. Rather than be put in prison, the judge can order you to go work in some capacity without pay, as with community service.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by sage_joch on Thursday December 16, 2010 @10:55PM (#2015095)
Ouch, I stand corrected. I should know by now not to take quotes from articles at face value, especially when it is so easy to look up the source directly. :-)
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by barrkel on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:29AM (#2015819)
Which just shows you a flaw in the US constitution.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by ChristianMarks on Friday December 17, 2010 @10:01AM (#2016380)
This may be the contradiction that Godel was about to blurt out during naturalization, before von Neumann kicked him in the shins.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by Bystander on Saturday December 18, 2010 @08:48AM (#2019481)
it's not a flaw - you break the laws, you pay the price. it shouldn't be a vacation.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by JulianMorrison on Friday December 17, 2010 @04:40AM (#2015748)
http://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Incarceration-Colorblindn...

"Contrary to the rosy picture of race embodied in Barack Obama's political success and Oprah Winfrey's financial success, legal scholar Alexander argues vigorously and persuasively that [w]e have not ended racial caste in America; we have merely redesigned it. Jim Crow and legal racial segregation has been replaced by mass incarceration as a system of social control (More African Americans are under correctional control today... than were enslaved in 1850). Alexander reviews American racial history from the colonies to the Clinton administration, delineating its transformation into the war on drugs. She offers an acute analysis of the effect of this mass incarceration upon former inmates who will be discriminated against, legally, for the rest of their lives, denied employment, housing, education, and public benefits. Most provocatively, she reveals how both the move toward colorblindness and affirmative action may blur our vision of injustice: most Americans know and don't know the truth about mass incarceration—but her carefully researched, deeply engaging, and thoroughly readable book should change that."

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by bugsy on Friday December 17, 2010 @04:44PM (#2017948)
I agree with that book, however I see that the underlying dynamic behind it is profit mongering by the for-profit prison and for-profit bail bonding industries, both of which spend huge parts of their profits on political lobbying that increases their profits. Racism and fundamentalist religion notions about punishment are the tools they use to advance their agenda. Just pointing out that we have racist outcomes in the justice system won't change the dynamic of what is going on. Prisons are profit centers. For some.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by joe_the_user on Thursday December 16, 2010 @11:48PM (#2015212)
The prisoners are indeed incorrect concerning the 13th Amendment.

If only they'd paid attention in their classes on the constitution... wait, all education for prisoners has been abolished, another thing they're protesting.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by adrianbg on Friday December 17, 2010 @02:42AM (#2015569)
Who cares about amendments? Is it moral or not?
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by cma on Friday December 17, 2010 @02:16AM (#2015535)
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by bugsy on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:47PM (#2018201)
Wow, the "except as punishment for a crime" was used to reimplement slavery throughout the south from 1866 to 1941, with widespread arrests of black people on bogus charges, and then selling them to Corporations to be worked to death and beaten as a free labor source that can work 16 hours a day 365 days a year. And all well documented. I had not heard that before and I thank you for linking to a book that documents it.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by axod on Friday December 17, 2010 @06:01AM (#2015865)
Slavery wasn't abolished. It was just reinvented.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by pmorici on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:24AM (#2015807)
To be fair they are being fed and housed so it isn't like they are going totally uncompensated.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by joe_the_user on Friday December 17, 2010 @04:39PM (#2017918)
As has been noted, the 13th amendment prohibit's involuntary servitude except as punishment for a crime.

Involuntary servitude means you have no choice, not that you aren't fed in the process. Indeed, even slaves are usually fed and housed since they constitute an investment on their owners' part (usually not well fed or housed, of course). The camps where you were forced to work without eating were known as death camps, which fortunately would fall under the cruel and unusual punishment clause here.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by pmorici on Saturday December 18, 2010 @02:59PM (#2020140)
Yeah, I realize that I'm commenting more on the complaint in the article where they say that getting 25 cents a hour isn't enough but when you don't have to pay for shelter or food 25 cents an hour is likely as good as or perhaps better than minimum wage.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by joe_the_user on Sunday December 19, 2010 @08:52PM (#2023065)
Actually, according to the article as well as an NPR commentator, prisoners in Georgia receive no pay whatsoever for their labor, None, $0.00/hour.

Note all that extreme overcrowding, a lack of nutritious food as well as a lack of heating and cooling were mentioned in the demands. If they are correct, it's hard to imagine worse conditions aside from outright torture.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by elliottcarlson on Friday December 17, 2010 @01:28PM (#2017130)
Not sure why the parent was down voted - this is a legitimate statement - while they are not compensated, they are given free room and board which is at times more than what low income poverty stricken families can guarantee themselves.

They are incarcerated for a reason (yes there are cases of innocence - but realistically, the majority of offenders are in there for a reason). Whether it was a crime out of necessity, passion or simply because the perpetrator was downright crazy - they committed a crime, and their legal rights should be minimized to a minimum without making it a case of human rights violations.

If a work or education program can be offered to help people possibly correct their lives, excellent - if rehabilitation is possible - great. But they should not have the same rights as regular law abiding citizens.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by jasonkester on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:38AM (#2015837)
One could make the case that they are in fact volunteering for their servitude.

There are strict criteria, which you have to go out of your way to meet, that determine whether you're eligible to get in to a prison. It's easy to make the argument that everybody there is there by choice.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by jgershen on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:50AM (#2015851)
Not true; it is possible to be convicted of a crime of which you are innocent.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by bugsy on Friday December 17, 2010 @04:49PM (#2017976)
Even when guilty, there are many punishments which are unconscionable and amoral to impose for the crimes. For example, stoning a woman to death because she talked to a man who is not a relative. Another is third strike life in prison for smoking pot.
Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by astrodust on Friday December 17, 2010 @11:37AM (#2016689)
There are a lot of people that are railroaded into prison for simply being in the wrong place, looking like the wrong guy, or simply having a bad attitude. In some states it's extremely arbitrary, where they will brand you an accomplice simply because you picked up a hitch-hiker who happened to have drugs on them.

It's insane.

Re:The Largest Prison Strike In American History Goes Ignore... by derefr on Friday December 17, 2010 @05:53AM (#2015857)
Just for a single counterexample: anyone who has ever been falsely accused of rape. You can literally spend your entire life sitting at home watching TV, and end up in a prison.