News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by hashkb on Sunday June 09, 2019 @06:04PM (#20142232)
I'm a full time remote consultant. I've noticed anecdotally that over the last year 80% of my contacts have started muting their camera all the time. Some cite "bandwidth" or other silly excuses; most just say nothing.

I'm as insecure about my appearance as anyone else- what's the deal? I keep my camera on until it's obvious that nobody else is going to show their face. Then I have to be the awkward one to turn off.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by zeta0134 on Sunday June 09, 2019 @10:11PM (#20143322)
This is a personal anecdote, but I don't mind meeting people in person. I can do face to face conversations all day long. The minute you point a camera at me though, I shut down socially. I'm suddenly extremely self conscious about my personal appearance and my behaviors and mannerisms, and that stress makes the whole thing unpleasant.

I'm not sure why this is. I think it's not helped that subconsciously, video feels one way. A participant can be looking right at me but I can't know that, because I don't know where my face is relative to their camera. So, I assume that all participants are watching me all the time, even if that's an irrational assumption, and even though 99% of them won't care if I scratch my nose or something.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by colanderman on Monday June 10, 2019 @01:12AM (#20144074)
I video-mute for the same reason. My face adds nothing to the conversation, except to make me feel self-conscious. So I video-mute so I can give the conversation my focus, rather than my appearance. I don't want to take meetings in a panopticon.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by sethammons on Monday June 10, 2019 @07:54AM (#20145824)
Your face does add something though. We've evolved to be visual. If I'm just meeting you, an image goes a long way in cementing who you are in my brain. Seeing your expressions helps me gauge my message's reception. Is it absolutely required? Of course not. It is an additional value add to communication. Just like voice adds context you can't get with text.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ianbicking on Sunday June 09, 2019 @08:46PM (#20142939)
I've been doing video meetings for years, and I've seen video muting go up and down based on team expectations / social morays, general engagement, and the kind of meetings (e.g., one where lots of people are just trying to get some situational awareness, but aren't really participating).

I personally get annoyed when people video mute by default, and when I was a manager it was something I would bring up in 1:1s. Lurking on meetings is fine, but if you have a real role in the meeting and you aren't multitasking a meal or something, I feel strongly you should have your video on and be engaged, and most of the time when people are video muting it's because they are hiding their distraction and lack of attention, or else it's reached a critical mass where people are muting just to fit in.

Now that I'm an IC again generally the best I can do to encourage people to unmute is just name them: "hey Joe, are you there?" even though I know full well they are connected. It's admittedly a bit passive aggressive, but it's also a way of gently telling the person they aren't being present, and it's unlikely I'm the only person who notices.

I also mute myself for the wrong reasons, so I'm not trying to make this an indictment of individuals. But it's so easy for people to drift away from their work, especially when you are remote, and we need to look out for each other and not just accept dysfunctional behavior.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by couchand on Sunday June 09, 2019 @09:51PM (#20143234)
Wow I hope we never work together. A mature team trusts one another and assumes the best. If I got that feedback from a manager in a one-on-one I would put in notice that day. What a horrible attitude to bring to your work interactions.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Sunday June 09, 2019 @10:14PM (#20143343)
If you had a private conversation with your manager, and they asked you to "be more present" at telemeetings via unmuting your video stream, your response would be to QUIT? Maybe before that point you should talk through the topic with your manager. Surely the best result for everyone is to have a shared understanding, rather than making what seems like a minor communication "difference of opinion" a dealbreaker.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by darpa_escapee on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:06PM (#20143603)
This is butts-in-seats mentality, but for remote workers:

> most of the time when people are video muting it's because they are hiding their distraction and lack of attention

The OP assumes that those who have their camera off are wasting time, because they can't see them to prove that they're not.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:46PM (#20143769)
I get that, but... butts-in-seats as an expectation for the work day (which is typically where the policy/work culture is called out), is quite different from a butts-in-seats expectation for meetings where one has a "real role".
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by couchand on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:50PM (#20143784)
Can you clarify your position here? What do you see as the main issue with butts-in-literal-seats, and what about this hypothetical remote meeting is "quite different"?
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Monday June 10, 2019 @12:04AM (#20143834)
GP cited "butts in seats mentality" in a way that I interpret as pejorative, referring to office cultures where physical presence during working hours is more important than output.

A meeting is specifically about communication. A participant at the meeting that is inattentive is either wasting others' time, or should probably politely step out, or at least should not have been asked to attend. Being present is a priority for a good meeting, hence the pejorative "butts in seats" comment doesn't make sense to me.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by couchand on Monday June 10, 2019 @12:14AM (#20143866)
The output of an interactive meeting is the interactivity, not the appearance of interactivity.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Monday June 10, 2019 @12:55AM (#20143998)
I don't disagree with this; I just think dropping the video feed can impact the interactivity of a meeting.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by couchand on Sunday June 09, 2019 @10:55PM (#20143542)
This is not a simple communication breakdown, it's assuming bad faith without any evidence. That is a red flag of a toxic work environment. Don't let your manager gaslight you.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:11PM (#20143622)
You seem to assuming as much bad faith as you believe the OP is assuming. Is this (edit: your preference re: muting) a generational thing? Because I definitely see it as a reasonable expectation that somebody at a telemeeting would be visible-by-default, and only muted in specific circumstances such as large meetings, or after citing some abnormal local situation (e.g. not "presentable"). I believe body language is important and generally find communication still has "dimensional" improvements in efficiency, moving from text chat to voice to video+voice.

However, I can also see that my expectations are not shared by you, based on your strong response. My gut tells me this is related to different communication norms with "digital natives." I think your assumptions of malice and inability to learn on the part of the manager are misplaced.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by colanderman on Monday June 10, 2019 @01:26AM (#20144127)
I've never gained anything from watching "body language" during a video call. A key component to body language is what the other person is looking at. But – you can't tell in a video call! I can't tell who's looking at whom or what – everyone is just blankly staring at "me". And half the time, I'm looking at relevant documents in another tab, so (a) I can't see anyone else's face anyway, and (b) the fact that I'm looking away from the speaker isn't reflected in the video feed.

Growing up pre-internet blessed me with the ability to communicate effectively without body language, thanks to the telephone. I find that translates perfectly well to video-less conference calls.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by hoseja on Monday June 10, 2019 @04:11AM (#20144759)
Yeah, all this looking each other in the eye and such seem very much like a boomer/MBA thing.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by couchand on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:40PM (#20143750)
You seem to be assuming both my preference and age.

I'll allow that some of it may be generational; many of my younger colleagues have never called in to a conference call.

But I challenge your claim that I'm assuming bad faith. At no point did I question the motives of the OP, only their actions.

Edit: I should clarify, because my original comment could reasonably be read as assuming details about the internal motivations of the OP. Allow me to rephrase: if a mangers' default response to an individual not having a camera on is to dress down the person for not "being present", that manager is making a toxic workplace environment.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by ycombobreaker on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:56PM (#20143814)
Yeah I suppose I'm assuming your age. I don't understand where you're coming from when you feel that the immediate response from the situation is to quit, and my "maximum likelihood estimate" is that it is millenial vs gen-x office culture, hence the leading question. Apologies if that has offended you.

Your preference seems... clear enough to me? given that you said you would quit that day. What am I misunderstanding?

I believe your response of leaving rather than attempting to reconcile the difference in expectations is an indication of assumption of bad faith. As in, you seem to believe the manager would not be responsive to a discussion.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by maxxxxx on Monday June 10, 2019 @12:24AM (#20143906)
" I feel strongly you should have your video on and be engaged, and most of the time when people are video muting it's because they are hiding their distraction and lack of attention, "

You shouldn't be projecting your personal opinion on others. Even if people don't pay attention maybe you should consider that it's because the conference is not that important to them. Happens to me all the time. If I paid full attention in every meeting and call I am supposed to attend I would get nothing done.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by cookiecaper on Wednesday June 12, 2019 @09:19AM (#20164233)
Others have called out the extremity of this position, so I'll leave that alone, but do consider the practical/technical limitations here. Whenever there's a call with more than one or two speakers with a going video feed, the quality of the stream degrades precipitously. Depending on the quality of the teleconferencing software, either the whole call will become entirely unworkable and audio will get mangled, or the video streams will degrade into mush anyway.

Because of this, unless I'm expecting to be the primary presenter in a meeting or unless it's a 1:1, I'll usually "mute" the video feed. If I don't start video-muted, I'll frequently do it mid-call as people complain about lag, choppy audio, or inability to make out the primary presenter's screen. There's no reason to put the extra technical tax on the call just so people can see what I look like when I'm staring at a screen.

Please consider this as an alternative motivation, rather than assuming that anyone who isn't making themselves visible is slacking off.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by colanderman on Monday June 10, 2019 @01:07AM (#20144038)
This is a very distrustful, almost adversarial, position to take. If you don't trust that your employees are paying attention just because their cameras are off, then you must not think very highly of them. Regardless of whether that's true, that's how that stance comes across.

I would not enjoy working for someone who thought like that.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by PowerfulWizard on Sunday June 09, 2019 @08:14PM (#20142792)
I do a mix of video chat and conference calls, I don't feel the face cam really adds anything, but it is nice to have the ability to share the screen to review information, which is a reason to do video chat with the cam disabled.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by JumpCrisscross on Sunday June 09, 2019 @08:03PM (#20142728)
> 80% of my contacts have started muting their camera all the time...what’s the deal?

I do this. My camera is always broken.

I’m fine with audio, don’t like cheapening face-to-face meetings with video, and don’t see the reason to get ready for a remote meeting to which a video of my face adds zero value. It’s a preference which costs nothing, so I exercise it.

(If it’s a negotiation, why would I give my facial expressions away for free?)

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by felipelemos on Sunday June 09, 2019 @09:49PM (#20143221)
In my opinion people tend to mute their cameras more when the chat involve big groups and/or third party to their team.

If is a team call or a small group trying to solve a problem, the chances to have the camera on are higher.

In essence, the camera gives you a more intimate feeling, and depending on the situation people are more or less inclined to it.

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by p1mrx on Sunday June 09, 2019 @09:50PM (#20143225)
> muting their camera

Shouldn't the verb be "blinding" in this case?

Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by dagw on Monday June 10, 2019 @07:00AM (#20145505)
Video takes focus. If I know I'm being watched I end up spending a lot of focus making sure I'm sitting still, keeping my face neutral and looking into the camera. With the camera off I don't have to care about those things and I can focus more on what is being said and what I'm saying, or tune it out and get on with my work if its a group discussion that turns to a topic I'm not part of.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by maxxxxx on Monday June 10, 2019 @12:19AM (#20143882)
Personally I don't want to see the other person during a video conference. I find it distracting.
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by techslave on Sunday June 09, 2019 @08:20PM (#20142815)
why is it awkward?
Re:Eye Contact in Video Conferencing (2018) by inflatableDodo on Sunday June 09, 2019 @08:34PM (#20142882)
I don't then have to get out of the bath.