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Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by dahfizz on Friday June 07, 2019 @07:26PM (#20129511)
Do we know much about the impact this has on our bodies?

This is certainly something to be concerned about, but without that context it's hard to know what this really means.

The article says a "microplastic particle" is any peice of plastic smaller than 5mm. That's bigger than some pills - I would definitely notice chewing on something that size.

So how big are these really and what are they doing to me?

For reference, the US and EU both regulate that 10 micrograms per liter of arsenic in drinking water is safe. Using my rusty high school chemistry (please correct me if I'm wrong), this is on the order of ~10^20 particles (atoms) of arsenic per year. That's way way more than 100k and arsenic is more inherently harmful to humans than plastic.

This could easily be genuine epidemic levels of awful, or it could be completely nothing. Does anyone know more?

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by idDriven on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:03PM (#20129924)
> The article says a "microplastic particle" is any peice of plastic smaller than 5mm

I double checked the article and you are right, this is why the use of the apothocary symbols are not used in medicine any more it should be "5 and 20 μm polystyrene micro-particles elicited somewhat similar pathological and physiological changes in mice. These, particularly the 5 μm micro-particles, could be detected in histological sections of the gut, liver and kidney." The symbol means micro or an order of a million times smaller than a gram/meter so the particulate size appears misstated and is actually an order of 1000 times smaller than a millimeter.

> This could easily be genuine epidemic levels of awful, or it could be completely nothing. Does anyone know more?

It has been shown microplastic contamination is very significant in plastic-bottled single-use drinking water. Avoiding exposure as much as possible is 100% best medical advice, avoid drinking from single-use plastic bottles whenever possible. An infographic from WHO: https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/03/16/study-...

As for health effects microplastics definitely bioaccumulate in the gut, liver and kidneys in mice. Mice are not human but as this is a basic physiology issue it is very highly likely that they also bioaccumulate in humans. It is not clear whether humans or mice can ever clear these particles, it is likely they can damage these organs over time, they do cause biomarker and endocrine changes short term. This can indicate damage, possible scaring and a propensity to weight gain respectively. Also other unknown fun stuff. It is probably dose-dependent so if you avoid single use plastic bottled water thats key. The food supply issue (seafood) is less significant from a human health standpoint.

Second source:https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fenvs.2017.0006...

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by mrob on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:28PM (#20130034)
Microplastics were found in bottled water, but I see no evidence that they actually came from the bottles, and I can't think of any mechanism that could cause particles to break off from the insides of the bottle under normal storage conditions. It seems more likely that they were already present in the water when the bottles were filled.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by idDriven on Friday June 07, 2019 @10:43PM (#20130308)
It's likely a result of the manufacturing process, at least partially. I found the journal article the WHO pulled data from. Heres the abstract (I italicized for emphasis):

Eleven globally sourced brands of bottled water, purchased in 19 locations in nine different countries, were tested for microplastic contamination using Nile Red tagging. Of the 259 total bottles processed, 93% showed some sign of microplastic contamination. After accounting for possible background (lab) contamination, an average of 10.4 microplastic particles >100 um in size per liter of bottled water processed were found. Fragments were the most common morphology (66%) followed by fibers. Half of these particles were confirmed to be polymeric in nature using FTIR spectroscopy with polypropylene being the most common polymer type (54%), which matches a common plastic used for the manufacture of bottle caps. A small fraction of particles (4%) showed the presence of industrial lubricants. While spectroscopic analysis of particles smaller than 100 um was not possible, the adsorption of the Nile Red dye indicates that these particles are most probably plastic. Including these smaller particles (6.5–100 um), an average of 325 microplastic particles per liter of bottled water was found. Microplastic contamination range of 0 to over 10,000 microplastic particles per liter with 95% of particles being between 6.5 and 100 um in size. Data suggests the contamination is at least partially coming from the packaging and/or the bottling process itself. Given the prevalence of the consumption of bottled water across the globe, the results of this study support the need for further studies on the impacts of micro- and nano- plastics on human health.

URL: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6141690/

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by smsm42 on Saturday June 08, 2019 @03:19PM (#20134476)
That should be not so hard to check - some companies bottle water both in plastic and glass, levels can be compared. Others use specific sorts of plastics, so one could check if the particles in their water match the chemical composition of bottle plastic or contain other plastics that are not part of the bottle. Also, many companies supply water coolers which use big bottles made of different kind of plastics than retail water - but likely the water itself, from the same company, comes from the same manufacturing process. The profile of these can be compared and one can see if the bottles are the likely source.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by smsm42 on Saturday June 08, 2019 @03:16PM (#20134457)
> Mice are not human but as this is a basic physiology issue it is very highly likely that they also bioaccumulate in humans

That would be rather easy to check - take a bunch of dead humans who likely consumed a lot of bottled water (i.e. pretty much any urban dweller) and check them for microplastics in certain organs. Has this kind of research already been done and if not, why not?

Also, "piece smaller than 5mm" can be a huge 4mm chunk of plastic or one molecule. Depending on that, the average of 325 particles per liter could be enormous or completely insignificant.

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by idDriven on Monday June 17, 2019 @05:25AM (#20201220)
Right? If you could just do a national sampling as part of routine autopsies or something it would give so much valuable data. Sadly there is a lot of politics and money even in scientific research now. I would really value this data, I don't know who would fund it though if not the government, likely not Nestle or a corporation with great sales of bottled water. Also please see my reply earlier in thread Smithsonian article shakes head in sadness said mm for particulate size when it should be 1000x smaller.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by sametmax on Saturday June 08, 2019 @06:36AM (#20131706)
The problem with this is that it could take decades to become dangerous. Maybe accumulation is a factor. Maybe interaction with other things is.

It's hard to assess, and I'd find it saner to assume ingesting regularly inorganic synthetic materials our body did't evolve with to be risky and take measure before we know for sure.

Even if it's just because of intertia: it took almost a century between knowing that asbestos was dangerous and ban. So let's not wait.

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by jdietrich on Friday June 07, 2019 @07:49PM (#20129607)
>So how big are these really and what are they doing to me?

According to the paper, a) they're mostly microscopic pieces of lint from synthetic textiles and b) we don't know. Given the amount of research that has looked for health harms related to plastics exposure, I operate on the assumption that if it was a big deal, we would have found something by now.

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.9b01517

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by userbinator on Friday June 07, 2019 @08:19PM (#20129739)
and b) we don't know

If the claims of consumption are true, then people have been ingesting plastics for a long time and there have been no observed ill effects attributable to it, and I'd say it's more like "we have plenty of evidence that it's not really harmful" than "we don't know" --- but of course, the latter makes for more sensational reporting and fearmongering...

This somewhat reminds me of the paranoia surrounding radio waves and non-ionising radiation --- surely there would be some obviously noticeable negative effects by now, after well over a century of use, but the evidence strongly says that beyond known effects like heating, there's nothing else to worry about.

It's like those articles that claim (and likely are true) that people ingest X insects/spiders/other-disgusting-thing every year; it's sensational, but not really something to worry about (personally, I'd rather ingest the plastic...)

I've noticed there's a bit of an anti-plastic movement going on lately, with plenty of FUD articles like this being spread (not just on HN, but elsewhere), and I wonder if there's an ulterior motive...

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by alexandercrohde on Friday June 07, 2019 @08:33PM (#20129804)
I just have to downvote this mentality....

For example men's spermcounts have been going down steadily and predictably for over 30 years, and are now HALF what they were 30 years ago. Scientists have done thousands of studies and haven't identified a root cause. (I bring this up because many plastics are made flexible with a xenoestrogen named BPA)

We can't say "Plastics must be fine," we have no control group to compare against. For all you know the increases in allergies, nearsightedness, autoimmune disorders, or reduced sperm count are related.

---

Remember when leaded gasoline reduced a whole generation's IQ by a few points and caused a crimewave? Sometimes the negative effects of an enviromental choice take decades to figure out.

It's past time to switch into a "cautious until proven safe" way of thinking when it comes to health and environment.

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by hammock on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:05PM (#20129935)
BPA is not used to make plastics more flexible. It is commonly used in all sorts of places though.

Phthalates are commonly used to make plastics more flexible. They are also estrogenic.

Parabens, PCBs, and pesticides are all other common entrants into the body with estrogenic effects.

( Reduced sperm count and sperm quality)

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by chrisco255 on Friday June 07, 2019 @11:11PM (#20130395)
Do you have sources?
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by ddebernardy on Saturday June 08, 2019 @08:09AM (#20131948)
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by chrisco255 on Sunday June 09, 2019 @07:09AM (#20138463)
The Guardian is an online news site (with all the sensationalism that entails), not a serious scientific publication.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by ddebernardy on Sunday June 09, 2019 @11:30PM (#20143712)
The first article I linked to has links to the scientific sources.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by mrob on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:34PM (#20130056)
Most likely candidate for increase in nearsightedness is decreased exposure to sunlight:

https://www.nature.com/news/the-myopia-boom-1.17120

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by userbinator on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:33PM (#20130049)
Scientists have done thousands of studies and haven't identified a root cause.

Then there likely isn't one, beyond maybe natural evolution itself.

Remember when leaded gasoline reduced a whole generation's IQ by a few points and caused a crimewave? Sometimes the negative effects of an enviromental choice take decades to figure out.

That was actually a very noticeable effect that plenty of studies showed evidence of, unlike this one.

It's past time to switch into a "cautious until proven safe" way of thinking when it comes to health and environment.

We'd still be living like cavemen if that were the case.

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by 7952 on Saturday June 08, 2019 @02:57AM (#20131042)
Just because we can't measure an effect, it doesn't mean that one doesn't exist. This seems like a really unscientific thing to say. But remember that the world is not a lab where you can exactly control conditions. There is no control group, and the null hypothesis cannot be proven. But we still have to deal with that complex world and make choices.

To believe that a novel substance is benign until proven otherwise is just a form of bias. There is no objective reason why a substance should be innocent until proven guilty. We just have to adopt that policy out of practicality!

Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by idDriven on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:11PM (#20129968)
I couldn't access the article because paywall, however 'a)... synthetic textiles' would make more sense for inhalation vs ingestion. Also American Chemical Society may be biased, despite the lovable name https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/American_Chemical_Soci...
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by Steel_Phoenix on Sunday June 09, 2019 @05:39PM (#20142100)
I always wonder more about the airborne stuff. Blankets, carpets, clothing, furniture. In a sun beam you can see all the little fibers floating around. I bet I inhale and swallow way more plastic every year than I eat, but I never see it mentioned.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by kccqzy on Friday June 07, 2019 @07:46PM (#20129592)
Well for one, a microplastic particle is certainly much bigger than an atom.
Re:Americans May Be Ingesting Thousands of Microplastics Eve... by dahfizz on Friday June 07, 2019 @08:02PM (#20129663)
If you like, we could divide all our arsenic atoms into 'microparticles' that each contain: ~100000000000000 atoms. At that point your arsenic particle and plastic particle intake would be the same.

My whole point is that we are dealing with crazy big and crazy small numbers. Without more context they are all meaningless.