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Re:Toyota announces sustainable vehicle ecosystem [video] by semi-extrinsic on Friday June 07, 2019 @05:51AM (#20123048)
I agree with most of your points. But on this one:

> Toyota has been making the wrong moves for decades. They INSISTED on making the murai even when it was clear that hydrogen wasn’t going to cut it. The EV revolution is here (...)

You are forgetting that for Toyota, they need to deliver a solution that works for their domestic market. For Japan, cutting emissions while shutting down their nuclear power while increasing electricity demand due to EVs is a complete non-starter. They can't produce enough through renewables, and they most certainly won't build up a system that depends on import of electricity from China or Russia. So large scale hydrogen import from Australia, Europe or the US is the only geopolitically feasible option. In that context, it's hydrogen vehicles or nothing.

Re:Toyota announces sustainable vehicle ecosystem [video] by mikekchar on Friday June 07, 2019 @07:51AM (#20123580)
I honestly don't think this is true. For one, Japan is not shutting down its power plants. It is restarting them (or at least the one 6 km from where I live claims to be -- although they've been shut down for something like 10 years because they can't get their act together). Everything I hear from inside the country says that nuclear power plants are slowly going to be coming back online.

Secondly, while Japan can't currently produce enough through renewables, you would be surprised at the pace at which renewables are increasing. I pay something close to 30 cents per KWh right now. At that price household solar is basically a no-brainer. I haven't seen a single new house in my area built without solar panels for at least 3 years now. You can buy solar panels in any normal hardware store now (and it's the absolute first thing when you go through the doors). Sun and wind are abundant in Japan (especially the latter, given the amount of coastline we have).

Hydrogen vehicles are going absolutely nowhere in Japan. It ain't going to happen. EV charging points are absolutely everywhere. I live in the countryside in an apartment (my town has a single main street to give you an idea of the size). We don't have charging access at the apartment, so I charge my Leaf at charging points exclusively. We've gone on road trips up into the mountains. There are charging points everywhere. There is literally nowhere that I can't go as far as I can tell. Japan is gearing up for EV.

Re:Toyota announces sustainable vehicle ecosystem [video] by gambiting on Friday June 07, 2019 @06:20AM (#20123150)
Can someone explain to me how hydrogen import would work if hydrogen literally leaks through any container it's in? A lead bottle with hydrogen will evaporate naturally within month or two - how is any substantial amount going to survive few weeks at the sea?
Re:Toyota announces sustainable vehicle ecosystem [video] by ljcn on Friday June 07, 2019 @07:18AM (#20123401)
The Mirai uses carbon fiber tanks for this reason.

Some good info here on the transportation problem: https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/japan-taking-a-...

Re:Toyota announces sustainable vehicle ecosystem [video] by ljcn on Friday June 07, 2019 @09:33AM (#20124275)
Actually having now read a link elsewhere in this discussion (https://www.thedrive.com/tech/26050/exclusive-toyota-hydroge...)...

It seems that _liquid_ hydrogen escapes from small containers fairly quickly (weeks) and requires temperatures close to 0K, so cars use pressurized hydrogen _gas_ (700 bar for the Mirai) which doesn't escape.

_Mass_ storage of liquid hydrogen is no problem (months).