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Re:GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla’s Source of Cash by lmm on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @09:47AM (#20094954)
> For a potential car buyer, this is a good incentive to steer them towards better choices.

Talking about a "potential car buyer" is assuming your conclusion. If the outcome is going to be a car then you're steering them in the right direction. But you're also steering them away from non-car choices that would likely be better for society.

> Or are you talking about tax credits? Perhaps? But on the other hand they were still paying more than what an equivalent ICE car would cost, so it isn't a free ride for them either.

It is a free ride - taxpayers subsidize them buying a personal car, whatever their personal motivations for that choice were. And it's disproportionately the well-off who benefit.

> In the end society hopefully gets a sustainable EV industry, at a lower cost than if the government had done it themselves, isn't that what we should be comparing it against?

It is essentially the government doing it themselves - ultimately public money is being pumped into these EV companies in the same way as if they were a part-nationalised industry, with all the problems that that implies. The goal shouldn't be electric cars, the goal should be pollution reduction - imagine putting the same amount of subsidy towards e.g. bicycles for poorer inner-city residents.

Re:GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla’s Source of Cash by benj111 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @11:13AM (#20095777)
"It is a free ride - taxpayers subsidize them buying a personal car"

But they're being subsidised to buy a more expensive car. The aim is to bring it in line with other more expensive cars.

It isn't $10000 off the default option, it's $10000 off the better for society option to bring it more in line with the default option. If it works as intended the buyer doesn't save money.

I suppose you could structure it to favour those with lower incomes, it would be more costly, more complicated, and I'm not sure how you could get to a sustainable model as quickly. Poorer people would presumably want cheaper cars, but currently EVs are expensive, so you would need to subsidise them that much longer, and potentially right about now you'd have cross subsidy anyway, with rich buyers buying expensive cars with R&D paid for with government subsidy money.

We can talk about alternatives to car, that isn't where politics is at, and I'm not sure tax credits would be a particularly good tool for encouraging alternatives. As I said don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Re:GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla’s Source of Cash by lmm on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @11:31AM (#20095944)
> It isn't $10000 off the default option, it's $10000 off the better for society option to bring it more in line with the default option.

Again you're assuming the default option is buying a car. Society shouldn't be paying people to buy cars, especially rich people: that's not a good thing to incentivise.

> We can talk about alternatives to car, that isn't where politics is at, and I'm not sure tax credits would be a particularly good tool for encouraging alternatives.

Surely if you believe tax credits work for electric cars then you should believe they would work for other things too.

> As I said don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

Is it even good though? It's hard to believe that paying rich people to buy cars (which still have negative externalities - land use, congestion, traffic deaths) is a better-than-replacement-level use of public funds.

Re:GM and Fiat Chrysler Unmasked as Tesla’s Source of Cash by benj111 on Tuesday June 04, 2019 @11:38AM (#20096006)
How narrowly do you you want me to word it, for better or worse buying a car is the default. I'm not saying I like it.

Bicycles are relatively cheaper, I suspect the barrier to cycling isn't cost. Its infrastructure, culture, etc.