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Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by mdorazio on Friday May 31, 2019 @08:51PM (#20066381)
If true, this will be a landmark case and should scare FB and Amazon as well. Personally, I think this is a good thing and it's past time for the government to at least set some boundaries, but there's no telling how it will play out with the current administration and amount of lobbying dollars flying around.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by d1zzy on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:45PM (#20066611)
Why would this have any relevance to FB and Amazon? I realize a lot of people on HN don't like what these companies are doing with their data, but this lawsuit is not about privacy at all so I don't see how it relates to those 2 companies.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by KirinDave on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:32PM (#20066814)
Amazon is not a "trust" in the strictest historical definition, but it's a amoral and terrifying company with incredible reach that frequently can and does snuff any chance any competitor has of using anything else.

If Google is bad for using AMP to try and drive publishers to AMP hosting, then how is Amazon not even worse for ramming crazy terms down publisher's throats while buying or undercutting every other shipping and shopping system in the country? Amazon's pretty much dismantled and eaten the entire American book industry, it's in mid gulp of the American consumer shipping industry, it's already business critical via AWS for a majority of American businesses, and now it's turning to selling "AI" products to government and law enforcement.

As for Facebook, I think maybe Facebook isn't a monopoly. But they shouldn't be allowed to buy Youtube or Twitter.

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by dehrmann on Saturday June 01, 2019 @12:04AM (#20067173)
> Amazon is not a "trust" in the strictest historical definition

Yup. Amazon can legitimately respond to trust and monopoly allegations with "Walmart, Azure, GCP, and Netflix."

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by darkpuma on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:06PM (#20066960)
Why would Google sell Youtube to Facebook?
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by KirinDave on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:16PM (#20066998)
I don't think either sale is possible, I'm merely using it as an example of what wouldn't be permissible.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by TheSpiceIsLife on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:33PM (#20067070)
What if Alphabet is forced to spin off YouTube in to a seperate entity?
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by anticensor on Saturday June 01, 2019 @10:53AM (#20069476)
Such a split will never happen. Rather, YouTube will be torn down.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by KirinDave on Saturday June 01, 2019 @12:29PM (#20069953)
I'm fairly sure everyone would fight tooth and nail to do this.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by sonnyblarney on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:07PM (#20066967)
Amazon is using it's profits from AWS to 'dump' on other, low margin businesses.

The most recent FT Alphachat podcast with an official from the Fed talks about Uber this way: Uber (and Lyft) are taking money from somewhere and undercutting the classical taxi business. This is a problem for competition. They could feasibly try to run losses until 'regular cabs are pushed out' (or largely) and then lock up the business.

Amazon can do this with any number of products, they can do it to shipping companies, to grocers.

More abstractly, Google does it with mobile OS, possibly browsers etc..

In our new world of globalization, it's a serious problem.

All this money from Saudi Arabia, under the control of Softbank is coming back and just throwing markets upside down in what is arguably tantamount to 'dumping' which is a bad business practice generally.

Even we work is like this - it's losing tons of money, ultimately selling stuff below market value.

In some cases it's much more clear than others, but it's going to pose a problem.

This issue very well highlights the problematic idea that business is about 'better products and service' or even 'free markets' due to the fact that so much cash provides leverage that distorts markets quite heavily.

Alphachat with Robert Kapla @ FT:

https://ftalphaville.ft.com/series/Alphachat

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by GuardianCaveman on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:50PM (#20066631)
Ant-competitive practices? Facebook buying up any and all rivals like WhatsApp and Instagram? They are a juggernaut and shouldn’t be able to own all social media.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by ergocoder on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:24PM (#20066778)
At the time of buying, people were mocking FB for being delusional left and right.

After FB manages these acquisitions well, we are now like "FB is evil and anti-competitive".

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by TheSpiceIsLife on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:40PM (#20067094)
Are humans inconsistent?

Are different vocal minorities loudest at different times?

I’m not convinced people is a coherent group.

Does the fact that some people were mocking X at some point in the past negate the validity of antitrust cases against X for ever?

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by threeseed on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:23PM (#20066771)
Facebook doesn’t own all social media though.

YouTube, Pinterest, Snapchat, Linkedin, Reddit, Twitch are all major social networks and there are scores of smaller ones. In search it is basically just Google and Bing.

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by kakaorka on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:52PM (#20066639)
They also tried to buy Snapchat but their bid was rejected.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by yeukhon on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:14PM (#20066728)
What’s wrong with buying competitions?
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by theprotocol on Saturday June 01, 2019 @02:34AM (#20067660)
There are market concentration regulations. The SEC typically applies a formula to determine if an acquisition results in a single entity owning too much of the market, in which case it would not be approved.

I don't know if this has been considered for these companies, but I suspect it may have been bypassed. At the very least, that's what an investigation would determine.

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by thanatos_dem on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:31PM (#20066807)
Well, in a word, it’s anticompetitive
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by yeukhon on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:42PM (#20067107)
Buying a competition is not anticompetitive. So why congratulate any acquisition on HN?
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by thanatos_dem on Saturday June 01, 2019 @01:29AM (#20067425)
Buying competition = removing competition

Removing competition is literally the most anticompetitive thing you can do. Like definitionally.

That’s why all major (edit: US) acquisitions take months to years to get approval from the SEC.

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by baddox on Saturday June 01, 2019 @02:41AM (#20067685)
Buying a competitor is no more anticompetitive than causing a competitor to shut down because they weren’t competitive enough.

What is supposed to happen to competitors that are actually less efficient and/or produce less appealing products? Do people really expect “competition” to mean a perpetual exact tie between two or more competitors?

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by jldugger on Sunday June 02, 2019 @04:48PM (#20078059)
> Buying a competitor is no more anticompetitive than causing a competitor to shut down because they weren’t competitive enough.

Well first off, predatory pricing is a thing, where competition shuts down because a market participant is deliberately losing money to gain market share in hopes of raising prices after everyone else gives up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing#United_State...

But a competitor doesn't have to shut down to be bought out. In fact, why would a company ever buy a competitor who's only alternative is shutting down? Seems far simpler to buy the useful assets from the bankruptcy. Here's one possibility I've seen: an inefficient incumbent buys a startup that has been winning procurement bids away from them lately. They have deep pockets from all the contracts not yet up for renewal, and can afford to buy the company now while they only have a few source of cash flow. End result is that prices remain high, and the borg lives on a little bit less cash flow until the contracts they just bought are up for renegotiation.

> What is supposed to happen to competitors that are actually less efficient and/or produce less appealing products?

They sell less, and make changes. Maybe they drop prices, invest in efficiency or pursue some differentiation strategy. It doesn't need to be a 50/50 but winner-take-all markets should not be surprised when regulators come knocking.

Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by deytempo on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:47PM (#20066619)
All you need to do is look at their respective stock price histories to see how they are related.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by chris_wot on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:48PM (#20066621)
Both of these companies are very good at extinguishing competition.
Re:Justice Department Is Preparing Antitrust Investigation o... by hdieonds on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:27PM (#20066540)
Considering how the current administration has - or at least feels it has - been treated by social media companies, I’d give good odds that the administration is the impetus behind the investigation.