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Re:Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventua... by vorpalhex on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:14AM (#20060526)
> You're right that containers are not VMs, but that's only really relevant as pedantry of technical details.

That isn't pedantry, it is an extremely critical point and the one most people miss when figuring out Docker. Both from a security context (docker doesn't provide vm level promises about isolation) and from a resource management side (docker is really close to no overhead).

It is not uncommon to deploy containers on VMs in the real world...

Re:Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventua... by hardwaresofton on Friday May 31, 2019 @09:44AM (#20060765)
This is precisely why I said the fact that someone would gloss over this is a red flag. The point is super critical.

VMs are literally so hard to do correctly and in a performant fashion that parts of CPU instruction sets[0], and kernel subsystems (KVM[1]) were created to make them easier to run. Containers, in contrast are literally a few flags and a bunch of in-kernel antics.

A few people, notably Liz Rice and Jessie Frazelle have given talks on how to make containers from scratch that are very illuminating for those that are interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPuvDm8IC-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYsVvV1aVss

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_virtualization

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine

Re:Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventua... by panpanna on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:32AM (#20061228)
Containers are "easy" because they are backed by tons of kennel code (cgroups, namespaces and basically a small part of many other subsystems). You can actually create containers from the shell!

VMs are "hard" because you start with nothing save some very low-level help from the hardware.

Re:Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventua... by hardwaresofton on Friday May 31, 2019 @10:50AM (#20061400)
Also, I want to be clear that I'm using "simple" and "easy" in the rick hickey sense of the words, as in "simple" has more to do with what a thing is made of, and "easy" has more to do with ease of use, taking available tooling/familiarity and context into mind.

What I should have made clearer was that I think containers are both easier and simpler than VMs. There are both less moving parts (I haven't looked, but I assume less code), and containers are easier to get started with than VMs (set some flags on some syscalls versus make sure you buy the right CPU).

Re:Billions wasted on Hadoop startups, the same will eventua... by panpanna on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:04AM (#20061534)
Fair enough, but don't forget there are some extremely simple hypervisor implementations out there too.