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Re:Buyer's Remorse: High Debt and Low Pay Leave Some College... by wpietri on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @02:51PM (#20043922)
I'm not blaming "the 'market'", whatever that means. I'm saying the shift from government-paid higher ed to student-loan-paid higher ed was promoted as a more market-oriented approach. Part of the theory was that if we put students in debt bondage for their education, they'd made better choices than if the government was controlling things.

Personally, I look at markets as tools for solving optimization problems, and I'm saying that one of the factors that makes that work well is missing here.

Re:Buyer's Remorse: High Debt and Low Pay Leave Some College... by rayiner on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @05:15PM (#20045584)
> I'm saying the shift from government-paid higher ed to student-loan-paid higher ed was promoted as a more market-oriented approach.

That was never the theory. The theory was that we decided we needed everyone to go to college. We realized that not everyone cold afford to go to college. Giving students loans is cheaper than paying tuition directly, because you'll get most of the money back, so the government flooded the market with no-credit-check student loans. Nobody involved was ever trying to create a functioning market, even an artificial market.

Re:Buyer's Remorse: High Debt and Low Pay Leave Some College... by wpietri on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @10:45PM (#20047908)
Two things can be true at once. In this case, it's true that people wanted to expand access to education. It's also true that, rather than just subsidizing education properly, this was seen as a more market-oriented approach.

I also don't think it's true that "giving students loans is cheaper than paying tuition directly". Governments are in a unique position to capture broad societal gains through taxation. So I think the cheaper option is just to fund education, especially the sorts we think increase economic productivity, and then tax the resulting income.

Re:Buyer's Remorse: High Debt and Low Pay Leave Some College... by repolfx on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @03:20PM (#20044235)
Part of the theory was that if we put students in debt bondage for their education, they'd made better choices

That might well be the case. In my experience, people in countries where university is free frequently complain about life-long students ... people who enjoy being a student so much they basically never leave and live off of public subsidies forever, racking up pointless qualifications. I've met such people too. Countries where taking a course requires gaining a lot of debt don't seem to have that problem, or at least not to anywhere near the same extent.

Re:Buyer's Remorse: High Debt and Low Pay Leave Some College... by wpietri on Friday May 31, 2019 @11:43AM (#20061916)
Sure, it might be the case. But given that we're talking about how even with debt bondage people aren't making good choices, there's reason to think it's no better.