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Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @09:13AM (#20039718)
Thank you for sharing your story! If the investor didn't put in the money, then surely that's terms for breach of contract, you should be able to kick him out of the cap table. And if your best developers still believe in your vision, maybe they'll be willing to take a pay cut in return for equity if they understand the situation and want to help you work it out? I guess a lesson here is that its not done till it's done and theres money in the bank, but in that same vein, it's not done until theres money in the bank, and if there isnt, then you might still have a path forward to salvage it and return it to it's rue potential.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by _tmel on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @09:50AM (#20040111)
Traditionally, yes, but the investor insisted on clauses that were structured in a way for them to retain equity without being obligated to put in money.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by digitaltrees on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:26PM (#20042927)
Contracts have to have consideration (something of value exchanged between both parties). Get a lawyer, fight this. The existence of your company is not something you should just concede, and honestly, this should t take you down, your investor will lose. Or just form a new company, and buy the assets from the old company and move on with your life.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by unknownkadath on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @09:53AM (#20040150)
Might get a lawyer to kick the tires on the contract language. I mean, ianal, but that cant be legitimate, can it?
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by closetohome on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:04PM (#20042653)
Contract: Investor gets 50% of company. Company might get money someday but no guarantees.

OP's lawyer: Sounds legit to me.

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by digitaltrees on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:27PM (#20042934)
Get a better lawyer. Doesn’t sound like an enforceable contract.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by gus_massa on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @10:01AM (#20040265)
I agree. Get a lawyer.

@OP: Did you have a lawyer to review the weird clause before signing it? Was it your lawyer?

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by thatoneuser on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @10:22AM (#20040507)
Dude... Not to be a dick but you claim you have experience yet you're signing away half your company without seeing a dime and with clauses that explicitly state they don't ever have to actually pay you? None of this adds up. I have zero experience with getting funding and even I'd insist on a 10% down payment minimum. Otherwise wtf was the point of getting an investor?
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by hughes7370 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @10:29AM (#20040590)
There are many conditions in which this structure is entirely reasonable. However, it gets down to the investor and their track record history. I take fault for not doing due diligence and probing them. Namely:

1. Ask for references of prior companies they have funded.

2. Identity mutual contacts with someone you both know and can verify their credibility.

3. Ask around their reputation of other VCs and people in the space.

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:04AM (#20041012)
How is that structure ever reasonable? It might even be illegal or at least unenforceable on grounds that there is no consideration

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_under_American...

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by hughes7370 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:32AM (#20041341)
This is a good point, I hope so.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by gitgud on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:21AM (#20041205)
When would this be reasonable? It sounds like Zero risk for the investor... promise money in the future in return for equity, if the idea flops they've lost nothing... ridiculous
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by hughes7370 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:31AM (#20041329)
The way it was structured would have allowed him tax avoidance on the investment, but also not be considered an investment but rather a silent cofounder, which would allow me to accept a low valuation without having a negative impact on the next round. Otherwise, it needs to be explained why the valuation was so low.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:12PM (#20042747)
That still doesnt make sense. Was there no clause that said that he had to put in the money? And why is it a big deal to explain why the valuation was so low? I'm really co fused by what the reasoning was or even why you would spend time on closing this deal if, as you said, you had other term sheets lined up and have experience in this. Is there something we are missing here? Like is this not in the US or was the money desperately needed or something? The takeaway seems to be less about doing due diligence on investors and more about avoiding insane contracts- I'm still having trouble figuring out what exactly even happened. Thank you again for sharing this experience with us - I'd really love a bit more context if you wouldn't mind so I can understand the takeaways better. And in the meantime definitely get a lawyer.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by zwily on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @10:59AM (#20040951)
Can you describe some of the scenarios where that makes any sense? Sounds bonkers to me too.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:05AM (#20041029)
It is bonkers unless theres something not being explained.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration_under_American...

An illusory promise does not count as consideration, and the courts would probably force the investor to pay up the money or, if there were no promises made, the co tract could be overturned on grounds of lack of consideration.

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by woah on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:00AM (#20040967)
In the US, you can’t buy something without paying for it. Did you give your investor the equity as a gift?
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by quickthrower2 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @03:27PM (#20044323)
You can’t list something for free on Craigslist? And have someone pick it up?
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by tedmiston on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @05:25PM (#20045674)
I believe parent comment is referring to "consideration" in the legal context commonly used in contracts to distinguish between unilateral and bilateral agreements.

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/consideration

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @03:56PM (#20044642)
Not a lawyer, but I believe that just giving something away is not technically enforceable which is why you see 1 dollar price tags, and picking it up would count as payment if the person giving it away is trying to get rid of it, the value is kind of in the garbage disposal aspect. And its not that you cant list or pick up stuff for free, you bn obviously can, but you just might not be forming a legally enforceable contract
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by bcb1276 on Friday May 31, 2019 @12:40AM (#20058261)
I’m a lawyer. This doesn’t make sense. What exactly did the clauses say? Did the “investor” make his (non) investment contingent on some types of conditions precedent that you didn’t meet? If yes, then he doesn’t have to fund his investment. But he doesn’t also get his equity. If no, then he breached and you have a claim against him.

I would not treat him as an investor and instead talk to a lawyer about putting him on notice that you’re prepared to sue him for tortious interference with your business. The other comments here about the requirement of consideration are correct. Also relevant: unjust enrichment and restitution [0]

I’m 100% speculating because you haven’t supplied enough information. The most important part of your post should be the actual language.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unjust_enrichment

Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by janetacarr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @11:16AM (#20041149)
For those wonder how something like this can happen I have a theory. It's possible the stock 'purchase' agreement didn't offer capital as consideration for equity; rather, stock would be assigned to the 'investor', and the 'investor' would 'confer' capital to the company which requires no obligation by the 'investor' to provide the capital.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by digitaltrees on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:30PM (#20042967)
People can write whatever they want in a contract, that doesn’t mean it’s enforceable, or will stand up to scrutiny in court. Contracts have to have consideration. That means there must be something of value each party gives to the other.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by vikramkr on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @01:17PM (#20042801)
I looked up the word confer in a couple online legal dictionaries, and if they are reliable, then it seems the word confer means "give, accord, administer, award" etc which would be an obligation to provide capital right? I'm curious how your structure would work in detail - I imagine there must be loopholes in contract law and consideration requirements and yours sounds interesting.
Re:An 'Investor' Destroyed My Startup by DevX101 on Wednesday May 29, 2019 @02:07PM (#20043417)
Sorry to be crass here, but what kind of bullshit lawyer did you hire that let this pass?