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Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by dragonwriter on Sunday May 26, 2019 @09:14PM (#20018731)
> Scrum is iterated waterfall.

No, it isn't. Iterated waterfall is at least as old as the first paper discussing waterfall, but while scrum mandates interations, it doesn't mandate much about how work is done in the iterations, and specifically does not mandate the process steps associated with waterfall; further, it emphatically rejects the role separations and handoffs associated with waterfall during the iterations.

> munching through backlog items fed to them by product managers.

That's...not actually Scrum, as it implies that either the role of Product Owner is taken by a PM outside of the Scrum Team or that that the Scrum Team is not self-organizing, either of which is a significant (even if common) deviation from Scrum.

> the blinkers of "sprints" encourage growth of tech debt because nobody has an eye on the future

Tech debt should manifest in reduced velocity which should be noticed, taken as a signal of a process defect, and addressed in the Scrub Team’s various inspection and process adjustment points.

OTOH, if the Scrum Team is properly cross-functional and self-organizing instead of having a non-team-member imposed as Product Owner, then including appropriate restarting as components of completion of relevant backlog items shouldn't be a problem.

Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by Sammi on Monday May 27, 2019 @04:54AM (#20020513)
You can scream "That's not actually Scrum" untill the day you die. It doesn't change the fact that that's how it is perceived and done in almost every place that says they do Scrum.
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by dragonwriter on Monday May 27, 2019 @10:30AM (#20022448)
A sibling comment to yours made essentially the same point, and I had already addressed it, before you posted your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20020206
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by wpietri on Sunday May 26, 2019 @10:23PM (#20018969)
What percentage of Scrum teams do you believe are "properly cross-functional and self-organizing"? And could you point me to examples of people losing their Scrum certifications for not living up to that standard?
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by dragonwriter on Monday May 27, 2019 @03:40AM (#20020206)
> What percentage of Scrum teams do you believe are "properly cross-functional and self-organizing"?

About the same percentage as that of “Agile” software development shops that put people and interactions above processes and tools.

OTOH, at any place that is considering implementing either, there are decision makers who can influence (or in the case of Scrum more than Agile, authoritatively direct) whether or not that's the case, so for them, at least, it's worth distinguishing between problems with Scrum as prescribed and problems which often occur because decision-makers decided to ignore key parts of Scrum-as-prescribed.

Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by wpietri on Monday May 27, 2019 @11:47AM (#20022947)
Most nominally "Agile" shops are in effect doing Scrum, so I'm not sure that answer helps your case. Either way, it sounds like we agree the "good Scrum" shop is at best rare.

Given that, I think it's worth considering that the problem is Scrum. Especially given that Scrum is not just a process, but an organization and an army of "certified" people that sell services.

When something generally doesn't work for its stated purpose but keeps making money, I think it's worth asking what its real purpose is. E.g., things like crystals and psychics. As Eric Hoffer wrote, “Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”

Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by dragonwriter on Monday May 27, 2019 @09:01PM (#20026363)
> Most nominally "Agile" shops are in effect doing Scrum

No, most nominally Agile shops are also nominally doing Scrum, but actually doing not-Scrum in a not-Agile context, largely due to sabotage of both core principles of Agile and foundational elements of Scrum by management.

It doesn't matter what name and superficial ritual you put on the process if it's all window dressing over top-down disempowering command-and-control by persons who are neither doing the work nor experts on the work.

Which isn't to say that the Agile and Scrum bodies of work aren't part of the problem: neither really addresses as a key point how the team effectuates ownership of process and how interaction with management works, which means those gaps get filled in (or rendered moot, in the first case) in ways which compromise what those bodies of work do prescribe because.

Lean, which comes from basically the same perspective (while they don't cite exactly the same values as expressed in the Agile Manifesto, being Lean essentially implies being Agile and vice versa) and is a good body of knowledge to draw from alongside Agile, is better in this regard, and so places nominally drawing on Lean seen to be more likely to be doing what they say, because Lean doesn't leave as much of the core vital parts without good guidance.

Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by yellow_postit on Monday May 27, 2019 @03:19AM (#20020113)
This is the great con of scrum certification — you can always point to some team and say “well that’s not the official version of scrum”
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by wpietri on Monday May 27, 2019 @11:49AM (#20022963)
Which is a really impressive con. Generally the point of certification is to make clear you're getting the official version. E.g., doctors and lawyers self-police because they know it's harmful to have quacks running loose. But somehow Scrum has been able to keep making money despite not bothering with that.
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by flarg on Sunday May 26, 2019 @10:28PM (#20018992)
This. I've run programs that purport to be agile but the work input stream was waterfall and disconnected from the means of output so it was really timeboxed waterfall, unfortunately my management did not agree to re label. You know it is real Scrum if it is painful for the business team and they come to realise that now it's software all the way down.
Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by HelloNurse on Monday May 27, 2019 @07:04AM (#20021126)
> Tech debt should manifest in reduced velocity which should be noticed, taken as a signal of a process defect, and addressed in the Scrub Team’s various inspection and process adjustment points.

This process adjustment usually means "sorry about your vacation" and/or "you aren't doing enough overtime".

Re:Scrum is fragile, not Agile by dragonwriter on Monday May 27, 2019 @10:38AM (#20022502)
Yes, if external actors rather than the self-organizing teams own the process, that is probably the first response, but that won't actually stop the buildup of tech debt and the velocity impacts, though it may produce a one-time, non-repeatable improvement, so even in that case if someone (even the wrong actor) is monitoring velocity and doing process improvement, there will be an impetus for further change.

(Of course, if the wrong actor is monitoring velocity and controlling process, then the team has an incentive to mask the effect of tech debt but continuously adjusting estimates to maintain the illusion of constant velocity, a d avoid the first bad response, or, if that opportunity is missed, to avoid the subsequent external interventions.