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Re:100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy, and the... by asymmetric on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:40PM (#20011929)
Seems to me like humans do lots of things for distant benefits: they die for ideals, work their whole lives to give their children a better future, save for retirement, produce research on subjects that will only achieve tangible outcomes in the distant future, etc
Re:100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy, and the... by TeMPOraL on Saturday May 25, 2019 @07:42PM (#20012204)
> they die for ideals

Sometimes. This is not something generally expected of people, and newsworthy when it happens. Not all ideals are also selfless - some, like loyalty to one's God in expectation of an afterlife, is directly selfish.

> work their whole lives to give their children a better future

A combination of biological imperative and social pressure older than civilization; also pretty selfish.

> save for retirement

Most people can't really do that, especially not when living paycheck-to-paycheck. That's why retirement funds tend to be done in opt-out and usually socialized fashion.

> produce research on subjects that will only achieve tangible outcomes in the distant future

Even ignoring the status seekers, pure intellectual curiosity gives short-term emotional rewards. I doubt most researchers would be able to sustain their efforts if they didn't feel at least some immediate intellectual reward that outweighed their lowered (or sometimes non-existent) salaries.

My point isn't that individuals aren't capable of putting long-term benefits in front of their short-term interests. My point is that they aren't capable of doing it at scale, in a coordinated fashion. A lot of this boils down to coordination problems - when personal sacrifice has low marginal utility (i.e. you need to get a lot of people on-board to materialize the benefits) and high immediate cost, few people will choose the sacrifice, and even if a small group coordinates on this, the first person to defect will destroy it all.

Re:100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy, and the... by est31 on Saturday May 25, 2019 @07:06PM (#20012063)
And still, a politician who says that airplane ticket and meat prices should rise to levels unaffordable by the bottom 95% won't get elected. It's too unpopular. Despite quite many people in non-western countries not flying in airplanes and only eating meat on rare occasions.
Re:100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy, and the... by sjwright on Saturday May 25, 2019 @07:21PM (#20012116)
None of those are distant benefits.

The person who dies for “ideals” are mostly driven by false claims[0] about the nature of the afterlife.

Improving your child’s outcomes is a biologically preset desire.

Saving for retirement is still ultimately in one’s immediate self interest.

Producing theoretical research has the immediate benefit of recognition in their fields and the possibility of a “lottery win” outcome.

Saving for retirement is

Re:100% renewables doesn’t equal zero-carbon energy, and the... by sjwright on Sunday May 26, 2019 @07:53AM (#20014429)
Oops, don't know how I managed to submit that without finishing it. Oh well, I'll throw in my footnote anyway:

[0] More precisely, claims they can't know to be true. (And are also almost certainly false.)