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Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by LeoPanthera on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:16PM (#20011102)
Please don't normalise the use of the term "SJW". It's use as a pejorative has far-right origins that attempts to shame social progressivism. Those accused of being one should be proud of promoting feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism. It is not a bad thing.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by tenpies on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:27PM (#20011172)
I disagree. It's important that we have different terms for Social Justice Warriors and Social Justice Activists.

The first is one who takes social justice to a ludicrous extreme and protests out of convenience (e.g. micro-aggressions on Twitter). The latter is one who is leading an actual fight for social justice (e.g. a lawyer in the UN fighting for women's rights in the Muslim world).

It would be an insult to describe both of these people with the same term, regardless of your political opinions on the term "SJW". In fact, I find that SJWs are usually quite opposed to social justice activists.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by Veen on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:21PM (#20011130)
Is everyone who doesn’t agree with “social progressivism” considered far right now? What you’re doing is language policing, which is one of the reasons many find SJWs offensive.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by debatem1 on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:29PM (#20011186)
Note the difference between what the first poster said and how the second has taken it.

The first poster talked about the origin of the word on the far right. The reply then exaggerated that claim into the strawman that everyone who disagrees is far right.

Independent of your political views, you should find this kind of hyperbolic and fallacious argument distasteful in public discourse.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by Veen on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:39PM (#20011258)
Also note that “guilt by association” is a common and distasteful rhetorical tactic, often taking the form of an implication that unwanted speech is tainted because of a spurious association with the far right or far left.

Further note that whether the term “SJW” originated with the far right — it didn’t — is irrelevant to its usefulness or accuracy (genetic fallacy).

The hyperbolic and fallacious arguments are to be found in the first poster’s comments.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by debatem1 on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:25PM (#20011863)
I can't speak to the origin of the word, because I simply don't know. If you're right about that and the parent was wrong, why not put the facts out there?

To put it another way, regardless of whether you agree with their logic, they've provided you with it: 'SJW' came from the right wing and describes progressives, therefore it is derogatory. If they have the facts wrong, demonstrate that and perhaps they will change their point of view.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by Veen on Sunday May 26, 2019 @04:23AM (#20013786)
I’m not sure whether you consider this evidence, but here’s the second paragraph from the Wikipedia article on “SJW”. You can follow the reference links from there.

The phrase originated in the late 20th century as a neutral or positive term for people engaged in social justice activism.[1] In 2011, when the term first appeared on Twitter, it changed from a primarily positive term to an overwhelmingly negative one

As for your overall point, for an argument to be sound, its propositions have to be true and the logic has to valid. Even if the poster was right about the origin of the term, they failed to support their conclusion; namely that we should stop using the term SJW. Their conclusion wouldn’t follow from their premises even if they were true because the argument is fallacious (genetic fallacy, as I said).

As it happens, they were both factually and logically incorrect, and they papered over the flaws in their reasoning with manipulative rhetoric. To my mind, that’s exactly the sort of discourse that should be called out as harmful to reasonable conversation.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by unimpressive on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:23PM (#20011147)
It is generally adversarial to call people labels they wouldn't use themselves. Sometimes that adversarial tone is warranted. On Hacker News, in a top level comment that's starting off the conversation is probably not one of those places.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by Veen on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:27PM (#20011173)
Adversarial in the same way as referring to anyone who isn’t a progressive as far right?
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by unimpressive on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:32PM (#20011205)
Yes. Exactly like that.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by user982 on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:28PM (#20011177)
> It is generally adversarial to call people labels they wouldn't use themselves.

SJW originated as a self-appellation.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by PunchTornado on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:30PM (#20011193)
most far righters consider themselves just right wing or centric or 'common sense' as I recently heard. everbody uses labels that others don't like.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by josteink on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:27PM (#20011169)
SJW is a well recognised term for a political movement and their principally unsound methods.

In this case, the actual story is about SJWs and their actions, and how their unsoundness has caused injustice.

YMMV, but personally I couldn’t imagine a better term to use in the top level comment.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by walshemj on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:23PM (#20011144)
But actually those that use "SJW" in this way are not in the main stream - so yes they are considered far right.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by Veen on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:25PM (#20011163)
I’ve met plenty of traditional leftists who don’t buy into identity politics and consider SJW an apt description.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by mrec on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:50PM (#20011326)
And I've encountered some leftists who, while they don't use the term "SJW" amongst themselves, are comfortable describing themselves that way to others since (as far as I could make out) everyone has a pretty good idea what it refers to and they consider that stereotype accurate enough to be useful.

Obviously none of that will apply to everyone, but hey. Some people juggle geese.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by walshemj on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:56PM (#20012021)
Ah you mean "hobbyists"
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by craigzucchini on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:27PM (#20011168)
I used to think so too, and at one point I think it was used too broadly to describe anyone with any left-of-center progressive ideas. But, more and more people are describing themselves with this term, with a tendency toward being those who the OP describes. Far-left, otherwise potentially intelligent people, who think they fight for a virtuous ideology by publicly shaming people on the internet and really not doing anything positive for anyone. I'd hope for more from these people, but if all else fails, they should be ridiculed like the racists they are and the racists they claim to fight against.
Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by chronial on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:24PM (#20011152)
There clearly seems to be a mob of people on Twitter that exhibit the behaviour explained by the GP. In doing so, they are not promoting feminism, multiculturalism and least of all human rights.

I thought the accepted name for this group of people was SJW. Is this not the case? What do you call this?

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by john_moscow on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:34PM (#20011224)
There's nothing wrong with promoting feminism, civil rights, and multiculturalism.

On the contrary, there's something very unethical about dealing actual damage to other people's lives based on unverified facts acting purely out of emotion. I believe this is something our society has to outgrow unless we all want the social tensions and aggression to keep on increasing.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by mjrow on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:22PM (#20011140)
>It is not a bad thing.

Under your point of view. Not everybody must share your views on politics.

Re:An internet mob falsely painted a Chipotle employee as ra... by TheOperator on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:34PM (#20011225)
If you don't think the "SJW"s have their dark side you have a rose tinted view of them. The socially progressive crowd you're talking about can veer into bigotry thats "woke" because it's directed against the correct groups, and can be deeply patronizing towards the groups they're nominally trying to protect. Being an SJW is a combination of having socially progressive views, being bigoted yet in denial of this, and being intensely judgemental.

I've been nominally protected by these social progressives all my life... yet honestly the most brutal and abusive things ever said to me escaped the lips of a certain subset of woke progressives who are so convinced of peoples vulnerability they can't help but see them as weak. Theres people who develop self-serving savior complexes that spout out progressive buzzwords while not helping anybody but theirselves.

In my personal experience I've had alt-right people who browse /pol/ offer me a drink and apolgize for saying bigoted shit. Have yet to experience an SJW do the same for patronizing me. Can't normalize criticism of progressives though because as the above poster explains, I'm only slowing down social progress that benefits me.