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Re:Static web – back to the roots? by eitland on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:11AM (#20007558)
I keep coming back to this: we keep underestimating our coworkers, users, bosses etc.

Even as an engineer people keep on underestimating me (although sometimes they overestimate me : ). Here are some examples:

- telling accounting a number of times that they've forgotten a rather large PO.

- telling a network vendor they have a huge hole in their firewall only to be ignored until I contacted one of their huge customers which I also knew. They could have saved themselves a good deal of embarassing attention I guess.

- etc etc

Last year at JavaZone theee was an interesting talk by someone who was an early employee at a crowd funding company. He was a non-dev but talked about how he enjoyed being able to update copy in the web app (not just front page IIRC) directly after the devs had set up git, an editor and explained the basics.

If you are making the next google you'll want things to be extremely easy-to-use.

Making a google.com level UX for business apps might be smart. Or it might be insulting.

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by savolai on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:35AM (#20007616)
I've tried Gatsby on a couple of occasions due to the page load speed promise. With netlify it seemed like using it almost made sense.

I do see the compromises wp puts us into but for me, the benefits of static seem awfully abstract at the end of the day. If you want me to buy it, please show me an authoring experience I actually want to live in. I haven't seen one yet.

It's not about over- our underestimating people. It's about whether the technocentricity you are selling is worth it. For some of us, it is, sure.

For one, I just hate writing with markdown. Compared to WYSIWYG (i.e. just writing), markdown's syntax is a distraction. Writing is both visual and storytelling to me, why should I exclude the visual to a separate stage of the process? Just doesn't make sense to me.

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by Beldin on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:51AM (#20007656)
the benefits of static seem awfully abstract at the end of the day. If you want me to buy it, please show me an authoring experience I actually want to live in.

Authoring is about input to the system, static is about how the contents is given to the visitor. There is no technical reason a rich author experience cannot be coupled with a static approach to content delivery.

In fact, the article focuses mostly on page bloat, not so much server-side processing. The amount of bytes a Web page weighs in at should mostly depends on its contents, not on the author tools used to create its content.

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by savolai on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:03AM (#20007688)
If these are separate to you:

How would you allow a user, while creating a blog post, to add commenting to the post in a way that enables progressive enhancement i.e. doesn't require javascript, with static site generators?

If you can't, what is your justification for the sacrifice in accessibility?

If you can fulfill this basic requirement, please show me the experience of using the system and show me how it is better than wp as a whole.

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by chriswarbo on Saturday May 25, 2019 @07:58AM (#20008512)
I'd probably put the comments and submission form in an iframe; possibly from a third-party.
Re:Static web – back to the roots? by savolai on Sunday May 26, 2019 @07:31AM (#20014367)
An iframe is a possibility; the fixed box size is an user experience tradeoff. I really believe in the vision of a read-write web, i.e. for me the default should be all involved parties being able to comment on any given content.

Of course this should be possible to turn off for certain content and moderated, but it still seems artificial to not have the discussion on the same page, compared to the original post. HN is beautiful, for instance. :)

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by eitland on Saturday May 25, 2019 @04:13AM (#20007715)
> It's not about over- our underestimating people. It's about whether the technocentricity you are selling is worth it. For some of us, it is, sure.

Have my upvote.

You can pay a teenager to set up WP or netlify or more. What people pay me and possibly most HNers for is knowing what and when etc.

In a small team or just for an individual this might boil all the way down to personal preference.

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by savolai on Saturday May 25, 2019 @06:04AM (#20008089)
Please elaborate? Not sure what you're referring to. In any of your paragraphs, in fact.

Isn't the ascetic authoring experience provided my markdown just as much a result of deciding on which set of personal values are and are not important for your users?

Re:Static web – back to the roots? by alexchamberlain on Saturday May 25, 2019 @03:43AM (#20007637)
Although I tend to agree with you, some business apps benefit significantly from a "dumbed down" interface, as it's easier to provide business rules and validation layers when input is more constrained. I've worked on systems that take an Excel spreadsheet as input and providing decent error messages for every edge case is nigh on impossible.
Re:Static web – back to the roots? by jcelerier on Saturday May 25, 2019 @08:49AM (#20008719)
> I keep coming back to this: we keep underestimating our coworkers, users, bosses etc.

guess it depends who you work with. Had a recent experience where I spent half an hour for an user who has trouble with basic filesystem navigation - even though he's been using computers since close to three decades.