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Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by dvlsg on Friday May 24, 2019 @07:59PM (#20006276)
You can generate uuids that play nicer with database storage / indexing. NEWSEQUENTIALID() in MSSQL, for example.

The keys will be easier to guess again, but if all you have to do is guess a primary key to get access to the underlying data, something else isn't right anyways.

Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by prophesi on Friday May 24, 2019 @08:08PM (#20006316)
I think this gets to the crux of the issue.

It's not about using hard-to-guess UUIDs[0], but restricting access to the underlying data[1].

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_through_obscurity

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Access_control

Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by cm2187 on Friday May 24, 2019 @10:24PM (#20006740)
It's not really security through obscurity. In these case I understand the ids where related to data that the company was making available to users through email links. A cryptographically secure 128bit UUID is impossible to guess, no more than a cryptographic access token. Now of course, you would probably rather want to have an authentication scheme on top of that, but that comes at a support cost in term of customers loosing their passwords, locking themselves out of their account, etc. And it is not clear you have increased security as people re-use passwords.

Then of course there is the issue that email is for the most part un-encrypted (or encrypted without validating certificates).

Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by prophesi on Saturday May 25, 2019 @09:12PM (#20012529)
It's still an access control issue in that case. The user should never be aware of the UUID's. Only the backend should deal with it. If you have a _public_ API that deals with UUIDs, therein lies the issue.

And a side note: I wouldn't trust that the prng for your UUIDs are cryptographically secure. That's not a part of the spec.

Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by mattmanser on Friday May 24, 2019 @08:04PM (#20006300)
I know, but as they're easier to guess, what's the point? Might as well just go back to ints.
Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by tptacek on Friday May 24, 2019 @08:23PM (#20006354)
Is MSSQL's NEWSEQUENTIALID secure? I didn't think it was.
Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by kasey_junk on Friday May 24, 2019 @09:35PM (#20006601)
Is the point of non mono tonic is schemes to make them -secure- secure?

I thought they were a bit of a hack to raise the bar a touch. In which case the crypto security properties of that function isn’t interesting. Instead the ergonomics are.

Re:First American Financial Corp. Leaked Hundreds of Million... by tptacek on Friday May 24, 2019 @10:06PM (#20006684)
No, the cryptographic security of the identifier matters a lot. A GUID generated from an insecure PRNG can be used to predict other GUIDs. A UUID generated from 16 bytes of /dev/urandom can't be used to get anything but the object to which it refers.