Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @09:00PM
(#19976775)
Wouldn’t it prove the opposite namely that P equals NP?
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Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by Thorrez on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @10:49PM
(#19977299)
No, if you can prove that a secure hash function exists, then you have proved that P != NP. (This is what alexbecker said.)
If you can prove P = NP, then you have proved that no secure hash functions exist. (This is the contrapositive.)
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by repsilat on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @11:10PM
(#19977381)
For convenient definitions of "secure" :-). "Unscrambling" a particular function could be in P but still effectively intractable.
(For a fun angle not related to complexity, the algorithm itself could be so large that it wouldn't fit in the observable universe without breaking the Bekenstein bound.)
And it has been a long time since I did proof theory, but is there the possibility of a non-constructive proof but no actual examples no matter how long you keep enumerating algorithms? Or a non-constructive proof, but no constructive proof? In that case there could be a "perfect heuristic"...
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by fiddlerwoaroof on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @12:41AM
(#19977824)
Oops, this is what I get for not reading carefully :) But this is interesting: it implies, if I'm not mistaken, it implies that we haven't ever proven that a function takes exponential time, just that we haven't found any algorithms for certain problems faster than exponential time. I hadn't considered P != NP this way before...
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by gpm on Wednesday May 22, 2019 @01:05AM
(#19977947)
No, we know that P != EXP_TIME, by the time hierarchy theorem - i.e. we know some problems (and we do have concrete examples) take exponential time. What we don't know is that there exists a problem that requires exponential time (or otherwise greater than polynomial) where we can create a proof that a answer is correct which is checkable in polynomial time.
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by w8rbt on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @09:45PM
(#19976996)
I think you mean... P = NP. Which is very unlikely as we could do away with mathematicians if that were true.
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by jrochkind1 on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @10:17PM
(#19977148)
Seems unlikely, but not proven. That's the point. I dunno about 'do away with mathematicians'.
Re:Notifying administrators about unhashed password storage
by fiddlerwoaroof on Tuesday May 21, 2019 @10:30PM
(#19977223)
Yeah, I just thought that showing how to solve a best-case exponential function in polynomial kind was the sort of thing that would prove P = NP (I dictated this before, so NP came out as MP)