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Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by Miner49er on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:02AM (#19929126)
It's amazing this article even needs to be written. You'd think the executives pulling in these crazy salaries would be competent enough to know that paying their "team members" next to nothing is going to result in high turnover and be a bad business decision in the long run. This article frames his choice to actually pay his employees as some big discovery, but it's not. The fact is, execs already know, but they put their short-term greed over what is best for their employees, the company in the long term, and their communities.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mywittyname on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:27PM (#19930410)
It's more that they are out of touch, IMHO. They have absolutely no concept of how far $7.50/hr goes so they just say their employees need to budget better.

Perhaps if senior executives received minimum wage paychecks for two months (and no bonuses), they might gain some empathy.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by ohaideredevs on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:50PM (#19930629)
You can't gain empathy when something is temporary. Most of the stress of being poor comes of worry about how to handle long term problems / the fact that life has no point except slaving away. That cannot be replicated without genuinely taking everything away from a person.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mywittyname on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:21PM (#19932748)
I disagree, if reading books can increase empathy [0], then I'd expect any activity that forced you to experience the way another person lives would do the same.

[0] https://science.sciencemag.org/content/342/6156/377

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by gremlinsinc on Friday May 17, 2019 @05:10AM (#19937710)
They need a show like undercover bosses, but instead the CEO must live on 7.50 for an entire year, and work as their own employee they have 0 access to savings, they cannot use credit either, and they are given 1 suitcase of clothes, a cellphone, laptop, and some feature comforts for their tiny apartment like a 32 inch tv.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by c0vfefe on Friday May 17, 2019 @12:38PM (#19941209)
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by diogenescynic on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:48AM (#19940083)
I'd pay money to watch Angelo Mozilo go through that.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by diogenescynic on Friday May 17, 2019 @10:47AM (#19940076)
>You can't gain empathy when something is temporary. Most of the stress of being poor comes of worry about how to handle long term problems

This was a really insightful comment. I had never thought about it that articulately, but yeah if you are only dealing with stress temporarily, you can't even comprehend what it's like to deal with that FOREVER. It's just an impossible concept to grasp for someone who has that level of a safety net.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by ryhamz on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:01PM (#19930720)
I'm nowhere near executive compensation and I would just tap my savings for 2 months.

I think you'd have to limit their usage of previously acquired funds. Once you're rich, you can ride out a 2 month storm like it's nothing.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by mywittyname on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:27PM (#19932826)
The goal is not to impose hardship on them, but instead remind them for two months out of the year just how little minimum wage actually is. Most of them could probably blow that $500 paycheck on a single trip to the grocery store.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by frobozz on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:24PM (#19932159)
That's a minor irritation of a similar scale to accidentally leaving their wallet at their summer home and having to wait for replacement bank cards.

Poverty tourism is bollocks.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by toasterlovin on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:07AM (#19929171)
Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. Lots of things persist because “that’s the way it’s always been done”. Probably what’s going on here, in my opinion.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by JimBrimble35 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @10:53AM (#19929555)
I think what you are identifying as incompetence is, in fact, well-aged malice.

The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is.

The fact that this article's author seems to find it novel to trickle down the proceeds of the company to the bulk of it's employees is a pretty good indication of that.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by csallen on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:36PM (#19930495)
> The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is.

So in other words: It no longer requires any malice to pay this way, as it's just a cultural norm in the business world.

By the way, it's also a cultural norm in the US to complain about the lack of generosity among those richer than you, and yet spend almost 100% of your salary helping yourself, when you could just as easily spend it on those less fortunate. Charitable donation is trivially easy, even easier than raising the minimum wage at your company. Yet how many people in these comments are highly-paid millennials who would rather buy the newest iPhone than donate that money to those in need?

If we want to understand the psychology of those at the "top," we need only look no further than ourselves. Unless you're at the bottom, you're also at the top as far as people less fortunate than you are concerned.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by jakelazaroff on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:08PM (#19930791)
> So in other words: It no longer requires any malice to pay this way, as it's just a cultural norm in the business world.

Sure. But I don't think this is a sufficient defense — at the extremes, cultural norms can result in horrific things even though individual actors may not be motivated by malice.

> By the way, it's also a cultural norm in the US to complain about the lack of generosity among those richer than you, and yet spend almost 100% of your salary helping yourself, when you could just as easily spend it on those less fortunate.

There's definitely an incongruity between people's expectations of those above them and what they contribute themselves. We should all give more! But even if I were to donate 100% of my salary, it would barely dent things for those 500 employees.

When we complain about people above us, we're (usually) not chastising individuals but calling for systemic solutions to these issues. The overarching goal isn't for people to donate more of their resources, but to structure things in a more equitable way so that people don't rely on individual generosity in the first place.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by csallen on Friday May 17, 2019 @07:04AM (#19938331)
> Sure. But I don't think this is a sufficient defense — at the extremes, cultural norms can result in horrific things even though individual actors may not be motivated by malice.

At which point you are better served by targeting the cultural norm and the harm it does, rather than shaming the individuals following it as malicious. Not only is it more accurate, but it's more effective.

> When we complain about people above us, we're (usually) not chastising individuals but calling for systemic solutions to these issues.

I wish this was the case, but 99% of the rhetoric I see is chastising individuals.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by DuskStar on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:21PM (#19930913)
> But even if I were to donate 100% of my salary, it would barely dent things for those 500 employees.

There's a lot more people like you than billionares in the world, though.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by jakelazaroff on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:35PM (#19932914)
Agreed, and people like me should donate more! But can we agree that to whatever degree the extreme upper class disproportionately controls the country's wealth, they should also disproportionately shoulder the burden of helping those beneath them?
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by DuskStar on Thursday May 16, 2019 @07:59PM (#19934723)
As far as I'm aware, they already do disproportionately shoulder that burden - not just disproportionately to their proportion of the population, but also relative to their share of the country's income. What level of disproportionality is sufficient for you?
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by JimBrimble35 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:28PM (#19930971)
_but the billionaire's have MOST of the money_

............ THAT'S THE PROBLEM

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by DuskStar on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:03PM (#19931261)
I'm sorry? This seems rather incoherent. Most income in the US does not in fact go to the 1%. (A greatly disproportionate amount does, of course - about 20% - as expected from an exponential distribution)

And if you're talking about wealth... Well, having all the world's billionares give up their money at once wouldn't have much of a positive impact either. (The 1% in the US - not exactly billionaires, $10,000,000 puts you there - had about 35% of US wealth in 2007)

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by pxc on Thursday May 16, 2019 @02:17PM (#19931397)
> Unless you're at the bottom, you're also at the top as far as people less fortunate than you are concerned.

Analyzing this situation in terms of a qualitatively homogeneous property differing between people only in magnitude (income or wealth) is a mistake, in my opinion. (And so is taking a psychological approach.)

The most important thing the people at the ‘top’ have here is not any particular amount of money or income, but a radically different relationship to labor and the workplace than the mass of people who work under them. They have special powers (e.g., the power to set wages) and their income comes not only from producing things or providing services using their brains and muscles, but through owning and managing capital. At the very peak of the top, there are owners of capital of whom virtually no management at all is required.

It's because there are people, and of necessity a minority of them, in such a position at all, that the interests of society (as well as its privileges) are divided in such a way as to produce the inequality we have.

When wage laborers _do_ have control or input over things like wages, we _don't_ see the same enormous gaps between the highest and lowest paid employees at those firms. And in the case of that more agreeable outcome, too, the cause is not psychological— it's not that wage laborers are kinder or more generous people than executives, but that their position entails certain interests which are different from those of executives, and given the chance they will guide the firms they work at accordingly.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by csallen on Thursday May 16, 2019 @03:22PM (#19932146)
I don't disagree with you that the system itself has issues.

But the comments here are primarily attacking the "greed" of people richer than them, who would rather spend more money on themselves than on those in need. They're making a psychological argument, and so I am responding in kind by pointing out that these very complainers are hypocritically spending their paychecks the same way: on themselves, not on those in need.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by pxc on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:54PM (#19933768)
Fair enough.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by JimBrimble35 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:25PM (#19930939)
I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what pay inequality looks like for top earners. This isn't about using pay to buy luxury items like iPhones vs putting that money to charity. This is about people stuffing bank accounts with more money than they'll be able to use in their lifetimes because the generations of executives that came before them made it acceptable to take a disproportionate cut of the earnings from a business.

Businesses _shouldn't_ exist for the purpose of making the executive team and the shareholders rich at the expense of the employees. American dream or not, businesses serve a purpose in _society_ not just the tiny fraction of society who have the skills to start and run the business.

The goal now is to make executives and shareholders disgustingly rich, and use the government to subsidize the underpaid workforce that generates that wealth. We've created a socialist state for corporations.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by toasterlovin on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:47AM (#19930057)
> The greedy behavior that leads to the kind of inequality faced by today's society is now so well established that it has become hard to recognize for what it truly is.

I know you think you’re arguing against me, but what you described supports my position.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by _1100 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:02PM (#19930736)
Agreed.

It doesn't matter if it is hard to recognize, if you are unable to understand something then you are by definition incompetent with respect to the task or idea.

Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by JimBrimble35 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @01:15PM (#19930846)
It isn't incompetence, it's complacent acceptance of a toxic norm for personal gain.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by toasterlovin on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:12PM (#19932643)
Fine, incompetence is the wrong word, but malice isn't the right word.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by JimBrimble35 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @04:40PM (#19932960)
I think that if you look at the history of the trend, and the politics behind it. The decreases in top marginal tax rate, decreases in corporate tax rates. It starts to really _feel_ malicious. Although you're probably right, I don't think that all of the current c-suite occupants in the nation are acting out of malice.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by geodel on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:01AM (#19929645)
Well it absolutely needs to be written. Consider the incessant whine here that people ( mainly software engineers) need to be paid in proportion to "value" they deliver. According to them the lower paid employees like office staff or janitors would not deliver much value so they might as well work for nothing.
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by pdimitar on Thursday May 16, 2019 @11:34AM (#19929943)
Never in my life have I seen this. Not once. Where are you from?
Re:I froze the salaries of my executive team to benefit othe... by throwaway55554 on Thursday May 16, 2019 @12:16PM (#19930322)
Look at just about any resume writing service. They make you come up with ways you have "added value" at your current employer.

So, yeah, it's out there.