Re:Third-Biggest U.S. Coal Company Files for Bankruptcy
by zdragnar on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @10:18PM
(#19915847)
> Why should UBI be any different?
It's the "U" part. Taking money from the middle and upper classes just to give it back to them is inherently inefficient and entirely pointless.
Additionally, I disagree that it has been researched to death. People have infinite wants, and we have finite means. I would personally rather see this play out at a smaller level in reality (not a time limited trial that biases the outcome) before we go all in on 300 million people. And if we are not going to be replacing existing programs with it, I would rather not see it happen at all. That's my personal preferences based on what I currently know, at least.
Re:Third-Biggest U.S. Coal Company Files for Bankruptcy
by dyarosla on Wednesday May 15, 2019 @09:13AM
(#19919032)
Current proponents of UBI aren’t looking to fund it by taking money from the middle and upper class AND are looking to consolidate it with existing welfare programs.
On these points we don’t disagree.
Moreover, all these positive outcomes you seem to dismiss (and add that in the long term money doesn’t buy happiness- which is neither here nor there) doesn't mean that any of this is NOT good public policy, that it would NOT be better or that it would NOT improve long-term outcomes.
If anything, all the outcomes: lower stress, greater happiness, etc, are all known to lead to healthier individuals, with more fulfilling lives, with plenty of potential benefits for society as a whole.
Moreover, trialing UBI is a red herring. How many welfare programs have been trialed before implementation? How many have been researched thoroughly on their per dollar outcome? The fact is, many of these programs are implemented without any trial and only on the basis of perceived outcomes that would lean positive. Why should UBI be any different?
There are also plenty of examples that show that direct cash is oftentimes more favourable than some other variant; see the charity GiveDirectly’s entire premise.
To argue that no successful trial has been run, that outcomes have not been favourable, or that the general idea of UBI is flawed until we research it to death, is to be overtly skeptical.