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Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by GuB-42 on Monday May 13, 2019 @06:32PM (#19904677)
I think this is one reason we have juries. They represent popular justice.

Justice is supposed to serve the people, it is not a rule-based programming language, there is a human element behind it. That's why we have magistrates, who make sure the rules are properly applied, and juries, who make sure the decision matches what the people want.

So in this case, magistrates decided that what Bayer did was punishable and the people, represented by the jury, decided that Bayer are assholes and definitely deserve it. I don't agree but it is, I think, an important component of a democratic justice system.

Of course, Bayer will appeal. So maybe this time, science will prevail. I hope so.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by spraak on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:12AM (#19907682)
> Of course, Bayer will appeal. So maybe this time, science will prevail. I hope so.

i.e. you're saying that according to science Roundup does not cause cancer?

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by lordlimecat on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @08:00AM (#19908693)
Can't speak to every ingredient in roundup, but basically every US and European health or AG agency say glyphosate does not cause cancer. One of the UN agencies agrees.

Could an additive cause cancer? Maybe, but it's pretty hard to argue that Bayer intentionally used an easily replacible carcinogenic surfectants to be evil.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by klmr on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @04:29AM (#19907743)
I guess they’re saying that there’s, on balance, no good evidence to suggest that (especially proper use of) Roundup causes cancer. Because that’s the prevailing expert opinion, backed up by decades of studies.
Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by consp on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:02AM (#19907877)
The scientific opinion is that is insufficient evidence to either exclude or include it as a cancer cause but most studies show some increase. This is the main reason for only extending the permit in the EU for 5 years instead of indefinitely.

It is also grade 2A by the WHO, which basically means it may cause cancer in humans.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by klmr on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @05:46AM (#19908075)
> The scientific opinion is that is insufficient evidence to either exclude or include it as a cancer cause but most studies show some increase.

No, this is patently false. Out of all expert consortia, only IARC (= WHO) has reached this conclusion, and it was universally criticised for both the way they report risks (which is highly misleading), and the fact that their publication in turn suppressed contradictory results. All other relevant expert consortia state that the evidence does not support the conclusion of glyphosate and/or Roundup being carcinogenic when used correctly, despite the existence of decades worth of data which should show carcinogenicity, if it had an appreciable effect. “Most studies”, especially high-quality ones, show absolutely no effect.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by harimau777 on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @07:13AM (#19908470)
Is there evidence that it is carcinogenic when used incorrectly?

If there were, I could see a scenario where incorrect usage was so likely or unavoidable that it becomes negligence on Bayer's part.

I don't know if that's the case here; however.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by lordlimecat on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @08:02AM (#19908704)
If you drank it I imagine all bets are off but I can't imagine there are many of those studies nor is it relevant to the case.

The question here is whether Bayer /Monsanto knowingly used a carcinogen that nearly every health org says is not a carcinogen.

Re:California jury says Bayer must pay $2B to couple in Roun... by klmr on Tuesday May 14, 2019 @07:31AM (#19908546)
No direct evidence as far as I know (definitely none for glyphosate, possibly for Roundup) but that’s why Monsanto/Bayer publishes precise usage instructions, and such risk would be based on dosage and wearing of appropriate PPE (= e.g. gloves). In other words: Any risk would be hardly unavoidable.