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Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by csomar on Sunday May 12, 2019 @03:07PM (#19893777)
This article doesn't help itself by showing a bias against crypto and particular exchanges.

A few things:

- The scales of the first bitcoin bubble and the last one are very different. The last one created, literally, billions of value for the holders.

- A defunct bitcoin exchange can not "create" billion of dollars of wealth. That does not make any sense. People who bought early and sold when the price appreciated didn't make money from an exchange who went bankrupt but from people who bought higher.

- Bitfinex seems to be doing fine from a price perspective. The premium is gone. The AG doesn't seem to be interested in driving them out of business but rather regulating them.

- The era of the single exchange is gone. Bitfinex is a key player but there is no player holding the whole market. There is also an active off-line trading market.

- A bubble is usually the result of a FOMO-consumer market.

Some people are going to hate crypto and that's fine. But my guess is that crypto will stay here for longer and will mint more millionaires.

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by rtempaccount1 on Sunday May 12, 2019 @03:38PM (#19893994)
Whilst Bitfinex itself may not be a key player, arguably the Tether Stablecoin, which it controls , is.

From Coinmarketcap, Tether volumes are regularly second only to Bitcoin's , and many exchanges who have difficulty getting fiat banking arrangements, make use of it, to get funds into an out of their exchanges.

Loss of Tether would be a very serious blow to those exchanges.

So what's the risk? Well Tether's original proposition was that it was 1:1 backed with actual US dollars held in specific isolated accounts.

What we know now is that they "lent" $850 million to Bitfinex, to cover for funds that Bitfinex no longer has access to as their banking partner (crypto capital) has taken those funds and not delivered them to the appropriate customers.

There is now the risk that iFinex (who control both Bitfinex and Tether) could be technically insolvent, unless they can somehow cover that loss, or get their frozen/missing funds back...

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by jpmattia on Sunday May 12, 2019 @04:01PM (#19894170)
> There is now the risk that iFinex (who control both Bitfinex and Tether) could be technically insolvent

There seems to be a sizable amount of confusion about the difference between insolvency and illiquidity in the tether-watching community.

The fact that they loaned out funds to Bitfinex means that their balance sheet is fine (they are solvent), but if everyone redeemed their tether tomorrow, they would have to delay the payout, which is a liquidity issue.

In short: Liquidity issues are solved by capital injections (loans or equity sales, much like the BFX LEO), but solvency issues are not.

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by rtempaccount1 on Sunday May 12, 2019 @04:28PM (#19894352)
That seems to assume that Bitfinex can repay them, which is in no way clear.

If Bitfinex can't cover the loss, they're insolvent. If everyone redeemed their Tether, it's not a delay it's "you're not getting all of your money back"

As Bitfinex's finances are far from transparent, it's not clear if they're insolvent or not...

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dwighttk on Sunday May 12, 2019 @05:28PM (#19894694)
In a bubble lots of people say “it is just a liquidity issue” till it pops.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by wgjordan on Sunday May 12, 2019 @07:37PM (#19895320)
I don't think there is any confusion on definitions of insolvency, there just seems to be disagreement on whether there is any risk iFinex can get their frozen/missing funds back at all, not how long it will take to collect them.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by lallysingh on Sunday May 12, 2019 @06:44PM (#19895077)
So... What does that have to do with Bitcoin?
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by conanbatt on Sunday May 12, 2019 @05:49PM (#19894788)
> The era of the single exchange is gone. Bitfinex is a key player but there is no player holding the whole market. There is also an active off-line trading market.

You could have said the same for LTCM and government had to bail the market out!

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dmitriid on Sunday May 12, 2019 @03:46PM (#19894068)
> The last one created, literally, billions of value for the holders.

What it literally created was billions of vapor for the holders because ~100% of that “value” was entirely make-belief.

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by oarsinsync on Sunday May 12, 2019 @06:02PM (#19894856)
That's true of all currencies. It's just a shared delusion that the coin or paper has any value. That in itself has value, as otherwise you left with bartering with specific goods that have value to the person you're trading with - a significantly less liquid market than the one featuring the shared delusion.

In that sense, there's nothing special about bitcoin. It's just another shared delusion, just with fewer believers. As long as there are believers, there is value. The stronger the belief, the greater the value.

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dmitriid on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:59AM (#19896697)
Currencies, for all their make belief, have rather tangible benefits that do end up having and creating value.

What value beyond speculation does bitcoin have?

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by faissaloo on Sunday May 12, 2019 @05:19PM (#19894652)
I know you might find it hard to believe, but some of us actually pay for stuff in crypto
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dmitriid on Monday May 13, 2019 @01:57AM (#19896689)
“Some” does not equal “billions in value”. Spending the energy equivalent of several countries on transaction power equivalent of a medieval lender is not billions in value.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by jpkiser on Sunday May 12, 2019 @04:42PM (#19894440)
In no doubt are consumers expectations of cryptocurrency market adoption wildly over speculated but make believe? People who invest is cryptocurrencies are in essence shorting the current global financial system.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dmitriid on Monday May 13, 2019 @02:00AM (#19896701)
Short:

sell (stocks or other securities or commodities) in advance of acquiring them, with the aim of making a profit when the price falls.

——

In what way exactly is bitcoin helping to “short global financial system”?

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by arbol on Monday May 13, 2019 @04:23AM (#19897164)
Widespread "belief" in currencies other than those tied to national institutions leads to weakening of the nation state and therefore the current global financial system.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by dmitriid on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:14AM (#19898040)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19896697

And yeah. No amount of belief can make bitcoin into a viable currency.

Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by arbol on Thursday May 16, 2019 @05:36AM (#19927482)
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by arbol on Monday May 13, 2019 @02:22PM (#19902179)
I wasn't referring to bitcoin in particular.
Re:On the Looming Bitcoin Bubble by arbol on Monday May 13, 2019 @04:20AM (#19897158)
A cheap long shot that will pay out in the event of a gradual shift in attitudes.