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Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by Gaelan on Friday May 10, 2019 @09:23AM (#19877437)
> The smart lock requires you to have a charged, working smartphone that you can use in order to get into your own apartment.

The landlord claimed (about half way down the article) that there was some sort of code that could be entered to open the door with no phone. Is that not the case?

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by peeters on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:15AM (#19878539)
Yeah that's a very material piece of the puzzle that seems intentionally buried:

> Lisa Gallaudet, the landlords' attorney, said the smart lock was on a single door and that tenants were able to enter a numeric code to get in and didn't need an app. They'd also been offered codes they could enter without a phone.

Whether that's an alternative depends on the implementation. If it's a code unique to the tenant that goes through the same backend, then the same privacy argument applies. If it's a static code for any tenant, their whole argument falls apart. Either way, if true, bringing up the whole part about the elderly tenant not being able to operate a smartphone is just dishonest.

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by daveFNbuck on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:43AM (#19878826)
A tenant who isn't able to operate a smartphone may also be unable to remember and/or physically enter a numeric code.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by sachdevap on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:24PM (#19879296)
This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad? As for remembering the code, keeping a piece of paper with the code is no different from keeping a key.

To clarify my position, I am not in favor of the app for privacy reasons, and prefer the physical lock and key. But it isn't clear to me how far the dexterity argument goes.

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by darkpuma on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:58PM (#19881070)
> "This is curious. The person is able to operate a key, but is unable to enter a physical code on a keypad?"

That doesn't seem too implausible to me. If you thrust your key at the lock but miss... you scratch the lock maybe. Not a big deal, you can retry. But if you thrust your finger at the keypad, you might miss and hit the wrong key. Okay, so try again right? Just the same as the physical lock.

Except the key only requires you to successfully align the key and the lock once. The keypad requires you to successfully align your finger and the correct key numerous times in a row. If you mess up the second or third key press, you have to start over from the beginning.

So yes, depending on the nature of the impairment, a physical key might very well be easier to use than a keypad.

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by jfk13 on Friday May 10, 2019 @04:08PM (#19881737)
Having helped my 93 year old parent with comparable issues on a number of occasions, I can vouch for the validity of this.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by rhacker on Friday May 10, 2019 @02:33PM (#19880796)
Well, a piece of paper is easier to lose than a key on a keychain. I would suggest a metal key-chainable object that has the code written on it with relief bump-outs. On the flip side the same thing with brail.

Even then, it's not equivalent: a hidden wireless camera installed by a thief can easily see the code on the paper or key thing, or even typed into the pad.

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by daveFNbuck on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:53PM (#19879659)
In the same way that it seems like someone who could use a key could also use a keypad, it seems that someone who could use a keypad could also use a smartphone. At least one of these two logical steps is broken.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by sachdevap on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:08PM (#19879839)
I don't think so. Someone who can use a keypad may have the manual dexterity to use a smartphone, but not necessarily be comfortable using a smartphone for this purpose. I have known people who are comfortable with pressing buttons on an old flip phone, but simply do not get how to use a smartphone. Grasping technology is about more than just manual dexterity.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by daveFNbuck on Friday May 10, 2019 @09:21PM (#19883851)
The claim is that his inability to use a smartphone is physical. I'm taking that at face value because I don't have any other details.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by kelnos on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:26PM (#19879321)
Remembering can be replaced with a piece of paper with the code written on it. That's not any more onerous than being required to carry a key around.

And a key generally requires more dexterity to operate than a keypad. I think vision issues might be a valid complaint, since you can usually operate a key by feel; harder to do that with a keypad, especially in the dark.

Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by daveFNbuck on Friday May 10, 2019 @12:55PM (#19879690)
I don't think we know the precise nature of this guy's limitations, so it's hard to say why he has the dexterity to use a key but not a smartphone. A keypad seems to me to be more similar to using a smartphone than using a key.
Re:Tenants win right to physical keys over smart locks from ... by tboxer on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:15AM (#19877887)
That is the case - they offer a code you can punch it as well as a key card you can keep in your wallet (according to their website).