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Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by derefr on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:00PM (#19872860)
> they play for the chance of that one great random drop

You know, I've always been confused by this: if a game is using random chance to require probabilistic hours/days of effort in order to find some drop, my first response to finding that out is not "grinding for the drop", but rather "hacking the game to give myself that thing." (First thing that comes to mind: the Sword of Kings in Earthbound.)

In such cases, the only thing standing in my way of the goal is mindless—and totally automatable—repetition. I could write a bot to grind a Sword of Kings for me. Heck, I could download someone else's bot they already wrote. So what's the difference between downloading+running such a bot, and just editing the game in a save-game editor to give myself the sword? Same amount of effort. Same reward. Either way I'm not really "playing the game." But either way, I get to skip the part of the game that isn't fun, and get back to doing something that is fun.

The only place where I feel that this approach doesn't apply, is when the game isn't using HWRNG randomness, but rather deterministic seed-based randomness, like Minecraft or many modern roguelikes. If the resources I want are only available down on the 90th floor of the dungeon in this seed—and that's a deterministic fact-of-life of the seed—then that's just the scenario I signed up to play, and I'll accept it. But, of course, with such systems, I get to "choose my luck" by looking for a generous or mean seed someone else discovered during their own playthrough (or using a bot to scan for such seeds.)

Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by rifung on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:32PM (#19873088)
> You know, I've always been confused by this: if a game is using random chance to require probabilistic hours/days of effort in order to find some drop, my first response to finding that out is not "grinding for the drop", but rather "hacking the game to give myself that thing." (First thing that comes to mind: the Sword of Kings in Earthbound.)

I don't think I was nearly as smart as you but Maplestory was actually my first introduction to computing.

The game was really grindy and required you to just use your mana (I was a mage), and then sit to recover it, and then go back to killing stuff. It seems like they didn't do server side checks so I actually learned how to use a memory editor and just save the mana field which made it so that it didn't go down.

Of course, the problem with this is that it morally questionable since it gives you an unfair advantage and gets you banned.

Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by Scarblac on Friday May 10, 2019 @03:57AM (#19875948)
People _like_ doing something repetitively and getting random rewards. It triggers reward systems in the brain.
Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by derefr on Friday May 10, 2019 @10:14AM (#19877870)
I can understand that when it takes a few minutes at most before—if not the reward you’re looking for—at least some kind of reinforcement stimulus (e.g., with a slot machine, seeing two of the three wheels line up, making you feel like you “almost got it.”) That seems “fun”, if just due to a bug in human brain-hardware that you should probably not want-to-want.

But these games don’t work like this. When you’re trying to find a rare drop, there’s nothing giving you the feeling that you’re getting any “closer” to it. You just have to throw days of blind dice rolls for no reward at the game, before it’ll turn around and give you the reward once. Variable-schedule rewards shouldn’t actually work at that sparse a frequency. People who get easily addicted to things don’t usually find themselves grinding for rare drops.

The people who do do this kind of grinding are people with big reserves of determination. And I don’t really get what they get out of it.

Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by Scarblac on Monday May 13, 2019 @07:20AM (#19898076)
It builds up. Early in the game you get useful drops very quickly, and slowly slowly over time the frequency goes down until you grind for weeks just waiting for that single drop.
Re:U.S. adults are spending big on video games, playing most... by wildleaf on Friday May 10, 2019 @11:47AM (#19878867)
One incentive is that you get other more common drops along the way which help beef up your arsenal and help you progress at faster and faster rates.