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Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by jimrandomh on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:22PM (#19870180)
The article talks about people being uninsured, but this is a misunderstanding of the problem. I'm type 1 diabetic, and the reasons for this are pretty straightforward.

In thus US, insulin (of the types people actually use) is very expensive (~$300/vial), and requires a prescription which expires after one year. In Canada, the exact same insulins from the exact same manufacturers are literally 10x cheaper, and are OTC. Being without insulin takes about two hours to turn into a life-threatening emergency.

The prescription requirement creates ample opportunities for logistical errors that turn into life-threatening emergencies. And there's no legitimate reason for prescriptions to expire. And the cost is such that, if travel were free, you'd often be better off paying the full price in another country than just the co-pay in the US; the price is so insanely inflated that insurance is just compensating for the dysfunction, it isn't better than a sane uninsured baseline would be.

Insulin is cheap in every country in the world except for the United States. This is completely insane. It needs to be OTC in the US, and the import restrictions need to be removed so that US diabetics can have it at the international price instead of the gouging price.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by ordu on Thursday May 09, 2019 @02:23PM (#19870768)
> there's no legitimate reason for prescriptions to expire.

It reminds me a bureaucracy of USSR, where there was a developed system helping to people with disabilities -- medical and social measures, -- but to be a subject of that help you need to prove your disabilities on regular basis. System was not bothered by the fact, that if someone miss a limb, than it will last forever. So a person with a missing limb was forced to "prove" his/her limb is missing every few years.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by pjc50 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @03:14PM (#19871276)
Ah, the current UK system.

It's been condemned by the UN, but the government would far rather lose lawsuits than admit that disabled people aren't lying about being disabled.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by vkou on Thursday May 09, 2019 @02:26PM (#19870802)
> The prescription requirement creates ample opportunities for logistical errors that turn into life-threatening emergencies.

And logistical errors with prescription medications in the United States happen all the time. My wife has two simple, common prescriptions, and when she comes in for refills, it's a complete crap-shoot of whether they are in.

You'd figure that the free market would find some way to optimize this sort of thing - but apparently, it's incapable of anything but gouging patients.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by BRAlNlAC on Thursday May 09, 2019 @03:25PM (#19871395)
The prescription drug market is hardly free.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by albuterol on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:29PM (#19870254)
Same goes for asthma medication. Epinephrine got removed from OTC options a few years ago, and now it's impossible to treat asthma without getting pushed into steroid treatments with whopping price tags.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by bluejellybean on Thursday May 09, 2019 @04:46PM (#19872270)
It's actually back as an OTC, I only learned it was made available again after a scary ER visit. Check your local Walgreens!
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by mikecsh on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:49PM (#19870453)
Do you not have access to beta2 agonists such as salbutamol?
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by x86_64Ubuntu on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:23PM (#19873026)
Still need a script to get it.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by ASalazarMX on Thursday May 09, 2019 @04:38PM (#19872184)
As a fellow asthmatic, great username.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by pjc50 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @03:23PM (#19871373)
> insulin (of the types people actually use)

Is this perhaps the key - people being steered off the old patent free insulin and onto more expensive treatments, without really being given the choice?

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by cperciva on Thursday May 09, 2019 @04:51PM (#19872302)
Modern insulin is vastly superior. The difference between Novolog and Fiasp is small, but the difference between Novolog and Humulin is huge.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by pjc50 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @05:04PM (#19872401)
In what way?

(Is it better to have a better insulin on the shelf because you can't afford it?

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by throwing838383 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @03:26PM (#19871406)
the problem with medical service in the US is the prices. We really need cost controls here. The medical industry should be highly regulated in terms of the prices they can charge.
[dead]
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by dang on Saturday May 11, 2019 @02:19AM (#19884872)
Personal attacks are not ok on HN, so please don't lead like that. If you really think someone is trolling, please don't feed them, even if they're oversimplifying.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by samfisher83 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @05:29PM (#19872624)
Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand. If Apple increases the price of an iphone well you can chose not to buy an iphone. If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug. It has pretty inelastic demand. I understand that drug R+D is expensive. The US Government is by far the largest spender of drug R+D in this country.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by plainOldText on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:18PM (#19872988)
> Medicine isn't like normal supply and demand.

Indeed it isn’t, and like you’ve correctly identified, demand is inelastic. But it’s still a market subject to competitive forces, provided they exist.

> If drug x is what is keeping you alive and they have a patent on it its not like you can't buy the drug.

The drug x did not emerge spontaneously. Someone decided to create it because it was a demand for it and it was an opportunity for profit.

Had the research not occurred, the drug wouldn’t have been created at all. So the way I see it, having an expensive drug (I will maybe be kept alive) is preferred to not having it at all (I definitely won't be kept alive). Plus, patents do expire as far as I’m aware.

Yes, I understand people want drugs at prices they can afford but this is not solvable by simply price fixing without generating unintended consequences.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by samfisher83 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:32PM (#19873094)
Except the US government is by far the largest R+D spender in the world. Its not like the drugs it fund become public domain. You don't seem to address that at all.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by plainOldText on Thursday May 09, 2019 @06:56PM (#19873281)
A quick search on Google reveals that the U.S. biomedical industry spends about 3x more than the federal government [1], or about 67% of the total spending, so your claim turns out to be false.

[1] https://www.researchamerica.org/sites/default/files/RA-2017_...

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by samfisher83 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @07:46PM (#19873651)
Nope the us government is single biggest spender. Your own link tells you that. You are including a bunch of companies together. Please stop spreading fake news.

If you include prescription drugs us government spends 329bil. So I think us government is pretty vitial to medicine in this country.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by Whack-kneed on Thursday May 09, 2019 @10:07PM (#19874460)
Big Pharm also gets to deduct it's r+d expenses in full. Name an other private industry with that kind of a crutch....
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by throwing838383 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @07:03PM (#19873353)
believe me, I abhor the thought of not having the usual invisible hand determine the outcome of the effects of supply and demand.

But, when your head is bleeding out in an intersection, and you're about to die, it's not the best time to be shopping online for an affordable ambulance. Just so you know, an ambulance ride can cost you 3000 to 5000$ even if it's less than half an hour away.

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by SamReidHughes on Friday May 10, 2019 @01:25AM (#19875286)
That has nothing to do with the insulin market.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by nickles on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:37PM (#19870333)
Although I agree with you that the article misunderstands the problem, I'm not sure it's the cost of insulin that's the issue. Of all diabetics in the United States, ~3% have type 1 diabetes. It looks like 90-95% have type 2 [0], which is highly correlated with obesity.

While obesity rates in Canada appear to have stagnated [1], they are steadily increasing in the United States [2]. Additionally, the United States has roughly double the rate of obesity as Canada. Given the relative increase in obesity in the USA versus Canada, it's quite possible the increase in diabetic complications can be attributed to this.

[0] http://diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/

[1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82-625-x/2015001/article...

[2] https://www.stateofobesity.org/obesity-rates-trends-overview...

Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by ng12 on Thursday May 09, 2019 @02:13PM (#19870671)
Obesity and Type 2 diabetes have very little to do with this issue. Not all Type 2 diabetics take insulin and not all Type 2 diabetics who take insulin are at risk of DKA. Furthermore, the vast majority of Type 2 diabetics are adults. The article is very clearly referring to Type 1 diabetics.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by qntty on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:40PM (#19870368)
For young people, the numbers are very different. See my other comment.
Re:Diabetes complications soar in US, but not Canada, as tee... by nickles on Thursday May 09, 2019 @01:42PM (#19870385)
The referenced article studied individuals aged 12 to 30. Additionally, while both type 1 and type 2 diabetes rates among youths are rising, type 2 diabetes is becoming more common in that group.

[0] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11606-019-05006-6

[1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/rates-new-diag...