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Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by TeMPOraL on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @04:23AM (#19847501)
There are few things that couldn't possibly be done without plastic, but most of things do benefit from being plastic to various degree. People mention various material properties crucial to medical use, but I'd mention a simple other one: mass. If you tried to replace plastics with metals and glass in consumer products while retaining similar material properties, you'd end up with a lot heavier products. Think e.g. plastic bottle vs. glass bottle for an obvious example. All that mass increases fuel used whenever you have to move it.

This alone doesn't justify use of plastics everywhere, but it does matter at scale and over lifecycles of some products, so it's worth remembering.

Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by reaperducer on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @06:40AM (#19848148)
For some products, I wonder if using glass would result in less transport costs over the long term.

I think specifically of milk bottles.

Plastic milk bottles have to be brought from hundreds of miles away to my local dairy. Post-consumer, they're trucked close to 50 miles to the nearest landfill, or a couple of hundred miles to the nearest reprocessing company, or thousands of miles to another country's reprocessing facilities.

By contrast, glass milk bottles (widely available in the last five cities in which I've lived) are trucked to the dairy once. Then post-consumer they get returned to the same dairy for cleaning and re-use over and over and over again. Some bottles have clearly been through this process many times, as they show signs of wear and have less clarity than the random new glass bottle.

I prefer re-using things to recycling things, but I'm apparently in the minority. When I mentioned glass milk bottles at work once, nobody knew what I was talking about, even though I know they've seen them since we all shop at the same supermarkets.

Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by TeMPOraL on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @07:27AM (#19848417)
I'm in the "reuse over recycle" camp myself, and heard plenty of stories about milk bottles from my parents and grandparents, so I understand this point.

Instinctively, I'd wish we got back to reusable glass bottles for most things; as inconvenient as they are when shopping, maybe we could get that back in the era of increasing home delivery of groceries. That said, I recall someone on HN bringing up the following point: plastics are probably energetically cheaper to manufacture than their reusable equivalents. For plastic bags, I think the ratio was around 1000 uses before a reusable "eco" bag started to come ahead of disposable plastic bags, energy-wise. I suspect the calculation for glass bottles will be similar, once you account for the costs of cleaning.

Ecologically speaking, AFAIK the main problem with disposable plastics isn't their carbon footprint, but microplastics getting into the food chain. That means better garbage management is the crucial issue here.

I'm not saying this to defend the proliferation of disposable plastics - in fact, I have an instinctive and deep hate for single-use items where reusable alternatives could exist. I'm only saying this problem is nontrivial once you start accounting for energy use, or negative externalities. If there's some detailed analysis that tackles this issue thoroughly, I'd love to read one and update my views.

Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by ricardobeat on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @05:13AM (#19847728)
Aluminium has similar weight to volume ratio for small applications, and is the easiest to recycle, but is not aesthetically pleasing. Hopefully something like ALON (transparent aluminium ceramic) could come to the consumer market at some point?
Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by aetherspawn on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @07:49AM (#19848547)
I think Al is bad for you when it comes to handling food.

I’ve heard that aluminium pots and pans, as well as traces in things like salt, are strongly linked to Alzheimer’s.

Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by FreeFull on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @07:55AM (#19848577)
This is why aluminium drinks cans have a lining of plastic on the inside. So even with aluminium containers, you don't get away from plastic.
Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by ricardobeat on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @08:16AM (#19848701)
True, and the original lining ended up being banned as an endocrine disruptor (BPA). I’d guess the lining is more for protecting the integrity of the metal than food safety.

A middle-ground alternative would be returning to glass once transportation is fully electric and based on clean energy. Still lots of downsides, not an easy problem to solve.

Re:Reycling Plastic from the Inside Out by hammock on Tuesday May 07, 2019 @09:22AM (#19849066)
The lining of aluminum cans is still BPA.