News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by kiba on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @10:54AM (#1983315)
If we were to make decision as voters, don't you think we should have some reliable idea about what the government is doing?

What if the current administration is doing evil something behind the back of the electorate? How would we know about it?

You see, secrecy is a catch-22 proposition. If you're trying to do actual real work of tracking down terrorists, you don't want the whole world to know(at least until years later). But if you're doing something EVIL behind our back, the world have the right to know.

The cablegate? Hardly any reason to get angry over. It make the government looks good. But politicians are overreacting.

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Dove on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @06:38PM (#1985211)
If you're trying to do actual real work of tracking down terrorists, you don't want the whole world to know(at least until years later). But if you're doing something EVIL behind our back, the world have the right to know.

The main safeguard is rule of law. There's a whitelist of information that is allowed to be classified -- spelled out in http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13526 .

    Information shall not be considered for classification 
    unless its unauthorized disclosure could reasonably be 
    expected to cause identifiable or describable damage to 
    the national security in accordance with section 1.2 of 
    this order, and it pertains to one or more of the 
    following:

        (a) military plans, weapons systems, or operations;

        (b) foreign government information;

        (c) intelligence activities (including covert 
            action), intelligence sources or methods, or 
            cryptology;

        (d) foreign relations or foreign activities of the 
            United States, including confidential sources;

        (e) scientific, technological, or economic matters 
            relating to the national security;

        (f) United States Government programs for 
            safeguarding nuclear materials or facilities;

        (g) vulnerabilities or capabilities of systems, 
            installations, infrastructures, projects, 
            plans, or protection services relating to the 
            national security; or

        (h) the development, production, or use of weapons 
            of mass destruction.
You can't simply mark your shady activities "TOP SECRET". Not even the president has the authority to do that. That's an improper classification, and is illegal -- anyone who works with classified information should know that, and could be expected to report it.

Between rule of law, a law that outlines which categories of things the government is allowed to keep secret, and the fact that even really secret programs of any significant size have to ultimately be staffed with lots of normal citizens, I think it's actually a pretty safe and sane system.

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by jbooth on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @07:00PM (#1985302)
I could drive a truck through half of those clauses. Of course you can just mark your shady activities TOP SECRET. It's national security!
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by loewenskind on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @11:36AM (#1983511)
With the slight twist that if we didn't have all this secrecy going on we might not have engaged in the kind of behavior that made people decide it was worth forfeiting their very lives to strike at us.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by drivingmenuts on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @12:28PM (#1983741)
With all due respect, the current problems with terrorism have roots that go much deeper than the recent activities of our government(s).

A lot of, if not most of, the current tension in the Middle East dates back to just after WWII, when someone decided it would be a good idea to stick all the people that no one wanted (but wouldn't come right out and say it) in the middle of a bunch of people who were ill-prepared to absorb them (and didn't particularly want them, either).

That pretty much paved the road to our current little slice of Middle Eastern hell.

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Daishiman on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @02:58PM (#1984375)
The conflict with Israel is just a tiny fraction of the issues behind the Middle East problems.

Much more substantial were the efforts of the US government to overthrow moderate regimes for hardlines who would support them, as well the UK's efforts to deliberately screw up the decolonization efforts by drawing up national boundaries with no regards to the inhabitants' will.

It's complex, but it's ridiculously easy to see where things were wrong, and you don't need the hindsight either.

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by jbooth on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @07:12PM (#1985333)
Thanks. Don't leave out France, either, inventors of the dumbest system of government possibly in world history in Lebanon, and the proximate cause of about 30 years of civil war.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Daishiman on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @07:23PM (#1985364)
France practically invented modern state-sponsored terrorism with what they did in Algeria.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Semiapies on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @01:31PM (#1983995)
We actually have an interesting topic, here - no particular need to start a long, all-consuming thread by throwing out a wildly-oversimplified bit of red meat.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by jacquesm on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @02:22PM (#1984218)
I'd say it goes back to the Balfour declaration:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by iuyhgthyujik on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @01:50PM (#1984071)
The tension in the middle east dates back to when ug the cavemen decided the sun was god and zog the caveman decided the moon was god.

Take any news report about the middle east and replace the names with cananites, babylonians, persions, egyptians, romans, etc - the story doesn't change.

In fact if you read any books by Josephus - it sounds just like CNN (except better written)

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Estragon on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @12:30PM (#1983749)
"If voting made any difference, it'd be illegal."
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Andrew_Quentin on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @02:40PM (#1984308)
who is that quote from?
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Estragon on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @03:22PM (#1984468)
Chris Hedges said it near the end of his talk on The Death of the Liberal Class at the Sanctuary For Independent Media this Fall[1]. He attributed it to his brother-in-law, if I recall correctly. However, I am sure I've heard it before.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYCvSntOI5s

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by Semiapies on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @03:55PM (#1984570)
It's much older, as I've been hearing it for years.
Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by iuyhgthyujik on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @01:46PM (#1984051)
> doing evil something behind the back of the electorate? How would we know about it?

I think the existence of an 'administration' and an 'electorate' pretty much guarantees that they are doing something evil behind your back.

Re:EFF: Say No to Online Censorship by kiba on Wednesday December 08, 2010 @01:56PM (#1984102)
I don't believe in the possibility of an educated electorate or an electorate that can resist the temptation to vote itself money.