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Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by dekhn on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @06:27PM (#19792635)
None of G+ was Page's idea. There was a product manager (who left for facebook!) who did the big pitch deck that got it rolling. Then they put Vic Gundotra in charge and gave him carte blanche to modify multiple products. I agree that was the wrong person for the job. But you can't even imagine the amount of groupthink and ego that Vic surrounded himself with.

I don't think it was super-obvious 10 years ago, but social has turned out to be a growth product that led to a minefield for the successful companies (look at Twitter and Facebook now) because the growth strategies were so sketchy that people and the government ultimately had to reject them.

Ultimately, it's on Page, though. He stood up at TGIF and told all the player to "get along" when Search had made a coherent argument that coupling the Social brand with search was brand suicide. I think Google could have made a much less obnoxious social network, maybe it would have been good, but without aggressive growth strategies, it wouldn't have been popular (a lot changed since the Orkut days, most people forget Google had a social network with half a billion users at one point!)

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by paganel on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @06:53PM (#19792811)
> None of G+ was Page's idea. There was a product manager (who left for facebook!)

Didn't know that, it's cool to learn about it.

About Twitter and FB being on a minefield I agree, but I don't think that will lead to any serious consequences for them, because there's almost no political will to make things right and that happens because the voters themselves (those FB and Twitter users) have almost no interest in how those companies reached their present size. In the end any skilled politician can smell that there's no sense in going to war against a company (or against a communication medium) that consumes at least 3 or 4 hours per day, on average, of their voters' time, it's like a US politician going to war against television in the 1960s, backed when TV had just emerged, it would be public opinion suicide.

Retrospectively I still do think that Page had the right idea to try and force Social (back at that time I also thought it as a crazy idea), like I said, I think that he had sensed that Search will be of almost no use in a world where the internet/web is not represented by websites anymore. I do agree though that even as seen from the outside Page could have done a much better job of getting the Google employees behind him and behind his idea, I think that that wood and arrows metaphor he used was really, really poor and, frankly speaking, quite condescending.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by m0zg on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:00PM (#19792866)
Nah. Larry doesn't get a pass on this one. I was there at the time, and this (unlike, say, Cloud) clearly was one of "his" projects, something he pushed relentlessly and cared about a lot. That's why G+ was where you went if you wanted a quick and easy promo: you could launch a total embarrassing turd and just because Larry liked G+ that turd would be promotion worthy nevertheless.

Seeing the FB revenue figures today I can see why he cared, but I think he undermined the long term prospects of the company with this shit quite a bit, and distracted it from more valuable pursuits as well. That's all on him, not on Gundotra.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by systemBuilder on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:53PM (#19793206)
Google is not going to sell every g*damn email you ever sent for $$$, but Facebook will and does. So there was never as much profit there for Google as for Facebook because Google was run more ethically.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by m0zg on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @08:37PM (#19793448)
Never say never. Companies pretty routinely do surprisingly underhanded/unethical things once they begin to experience financial difficulties, if not on their own then under pressure from investors.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by sirkneeland on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @05:24AM (#19795643)
Wait, how does FB have my sent emails? I'd think sent emails were one of the few things they don't have access to
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by ummonk on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @10:02PM (#19793895)
Did you miss the time that google was showing ads targeted based on the content of your emails?
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by philsnow on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @06:36PM (#19792697)
The "trouble" with Orkut was the large majority of those users were outside the United States. Brazil and later India made up the majority.

Those eyeballs weren't worth as much to advertisers, and I don't think Google valued the product highly because of it.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by rusk on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:30PM (#19793057)
> Those eyeballs weren't worth as much to intelligence agencies
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by lallysingh on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @09:18PM (#19793699)
Where on the 10-Q is revenue from intelligence agencies? I seemed to have missed that line.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by acct1771 on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @03:19AM (#19795162)
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by lallysingh on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @11:26AM (#19797934)
The argument structure there 'a related to b related to c, therefore c works for a', isn't far from what they use on Ancient Aliens.

So, where's the actual profit? Or is this all mind control, friend-of-a-friend illuminati stuff that's assumed to make Google want to do this stuff?

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by acct1771 on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @04:25PM (#19801268)
You have a short attention span for a finance guy...

Argue the points, or don't bother addressing the writeup. Good grief.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by lallysingh on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @05:40PM (#19801909)
Going ad-hominem now? What points? You posted URLs. Neither of the URLs showed a revenue stream to Google.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by z92 on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:33PM (#19793078)
That was because you couldn't "sign up" for Orkut. You had to receive an invitation from someone who already has an account. Therefore it spread in regions where people knew one another, instead of spreading smoothly.

The reason why they kept it like that was because of the processing power that was needed to serve the pages. That was more than search. Every individual had to be served a different page. And computing at that time weren't as cheap.

Facebook was the first large practical social network among these where you can actually go and signup an account on your own when it was fully open. And they did it by heavily optimizing their code and hardware. That was a separate challenge, which seemed to me Google was unwilling to take for Orkut or anything social at that time.

That's what I felt was happening as an outsider.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by romwell on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @08:19PM (#19793337)
>Facebook was the first social network where you can actually go and signup an account on your own.

That's doubly false :)

First, all social networks that preceded it (LiveJournal and MySpace were big amongst my peers) had open sign-ups.

Second, Facebook became popular because the sign-up was not open. You needed to have an .edu email address to sign up. This was a feature, as it kept parents and younger siblings off the networks. Having a FB account was a literal right of passage, something you can only get once you go to college. It spread because of that; those were the great days of FB.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by rincebrain on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @09:07PM (#19793635)
Minor remark - LiveJournal had a closed invite (or pay to play) system for a few years, before doing open access again. :)
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by z92 on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @09:12PM (#19793657)
Indeed. But you get the point.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by zapzupnz on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:48PM (#19793166)
> Facebook was the first social network where you can actually go and signup an account on your own

Myspace, Friendster, Bebo…

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by icebraining on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @10:02PM (#19793898)
And Hi5 - I remember kids using that before FB took over.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by IshKebab on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @03:31AM (#19795194)
No way does a social network require more compute than searching the entire internet. That is ridiculous.

They cut Orkut because Brazilians aren't worth much in advertising. Plain and simple.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by lugg on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @09:55PM (#19793853)
> Therefore it spread in regions where people knew one another, instead of spreading smoothly.

I laughed far harder than I should have.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by jmmcd on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @08:35AM (#19796467)
They are beautiful regions. Have you had the chance to visit?
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by ssambros on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @06:42PM (#19792727)
> Google could have made a much less obnoxious social network

Even today, I think YouTube has a great potential for becoming a better social network, than G+ ever was.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by beenBoutIT on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:09PM (#19792926)
YouTube has been a bustling social network for years. Not everyone gets involved with the social part of it, but it's there.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by martin_henk on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @06:44PM (#19792739)
Very interesting. Social media today is a much more refined offering than google+. Google feels like microsoft nowadays. It’s something for adults to get things done. Your personal stuff happens on DM’s, instagram, snapchat, tiktok... much more so for young people. Therefore keeping search and social separated was a good thing.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by beenBoutIT on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @07:13PM (#19792951)
Reductio ad Microsoftium.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by martin_henk on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @11:18AM (#19797820)
In some ways, ms is more progressive than the goog at the moment. Office 365 is pretty good imho. Win 10 feels flakey though.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by pmart123 on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @08:15PM (#19793321)
That’s interesting. I think Google would have been better aiming for something closer to Twitter instead of trying to copy and mimic Facebook with Google+. Google’s core strength has been organizing information as a data first company versus facilating social connections.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by dekhn on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @08:54PM (#19793542)
The original pitch deck for G+ (https://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-presentation-that-...) really laid out a compelling view for a social network that worked well for people who had multiple distinct subnetworks ad they didn't want to cross the streams. Personally I thought the presentation was brilliant and I was behind the general strategy until Vic took over and started to wield the plus-hammer.
Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by geuszb on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @11:19PM (#19794257)
That strategy is dumb because in practice people don't mind or prefer using distinct apps for each of their subnetworks; and when these networks start overlapping in the same app, they start posting less (Facebook's problem), creating multiple accounts ("finstas" on Instagram), or bifurcating their real friends to another app (Snapchat 3 years ago).

Hell the fact that Snapchat succeeded in growing a credible threat to Facebook with a fraction of the engineering and marketing resources as Google+ should tell you how wrong that strategy was...

Each of the networks grew initially by providing an insanely better experience specific to a subnetwork (FB for alumni networks, Insta for narcissistic hobby photographers with its filters, Snapchat for horny teens who want to send nude pics, or who want to be goofy with its funny face filters...)

There were a few niches where Google+ unintentionally ended up being successful, such as internal to enterprise, and for pro photographers who liked that pictures had an option to be hosted uncompressed. But the vision overall had poor market fit and would never have latched on to a dense enough subnetwork to succeed IMO.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by dragonwriter on Wednesday May 01, 2019 @12:49AM (#19794590)
> I think Google would have been better aiming for something closer to Twitter instead of trying to copy and mimic Facebook with Google+.

Google Buzz was closer to Twitter, and came and failed before G+ was a thing.

Re:Eric Schmidt Steps Down from Alphabet’s Board of Directors by gowld on Tuesday April 30, 2019 @11:26PM (#19794294)
wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Buzz